This blog apostle gig is exhausting. I have to talk endlessly about Submission and Authority. I have to figure out how to justify an apostolic authority without an apostolic succession since I’m not Catholic.
And I have to protect all those people with my apostolic authority.
Oh, wait…I can’t say that. Because when it comes time to actually cover someone, where am I?
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…..
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You know…screw it…I think I have been too subtle. Let’s try blunt. It turns out that I can’t get my Funny Bone re-attached on this one.
Let’s try ranting, raving flamingly, in your face unapologetic. Noel told her story on www.sgmsurvivors.com about her three-year-old daughter being molested by a 15-year-old boy in a Sovereign Grace Ministries church, and the ensuing pastoral counseling ordeal that spans YEARS. The boy lies to the pastors about his actions and his evil. The pastors, in a stroke of utter insanity, play spiritual patty cake with the boy and villainize the parents. Why? What can be the logic? What can be the motive?
I can’t begin to understand the stunning lack of objectivity in the actions of seemingly every Sovereign Grace Ministries “leader” associated with the story. And since every “leader” at SGM keeps note on EVERYBODY, that would leave NOBODY out of the chain of responsibility.
I marvel at the lack of concern for justice: the stunning obfuscation between vengeance and justice. I marvel at the utter impatience with Noel and her husband Grizzly to work through the process of their own grief. I marvel at SGM “leadership” determination from the outset to minimize what this 15-year-old had done.
(What did it matter if the child was asleep while she was being fingered? What did it matter if she never knew? So if I shoot, say, Robin Boisvert in the head while he’s sleeping, that makes the assault less immoral? Can I be on staff if I don’t call John Owen a sissy? Since I did it while Robin was sleeping, I should be qualified? He never knew after all?)
Larry Tomczak, where the Hell are you, in all your Apostolic Glory? Che Ahn, where are you in all your submission and authority magnificence?
I know WHAT you are. A couple of gutless-wonder charlatans more interested in a form of righteousness and a pathetic need to justify your own existence and not a shred of action that even pretends at the power of apostolic office. I mean what EXACTLY is this Apostolic authority used for? I mean really… isn’t THIS the thing you national SPIRITUAL AMBASSADORS claim to be FOR? Defending? COVERING? PEOPLE?
You were PRINCIPAL parts of the insanity that has become Sovereign Grace Ministries. You know the inner workings. You both suffered those inner workings. How can you turn a blind eye to the methods: their power and determination to tyrannize? What are you clinging to? Some absurd super spiritual determination for reconciliation?
There is no reconciliation with Sovereign Grace Ministries…there is no reform with evil. Chamberlain already tried that. REMEMBER! There is no brotherly participation with men whose governmental philosophy makes them Elected Official, Police Force, Judge, Jury, and Spiritual Executioner–“Men” who reserve the right to doctrinally enforce ignorance or nosiness depending on how it serves their purpose. “Men” who turn their craven Care Group leaders into the Waffen-SS. (You care group leaders are no men… go ahead and cut it all off. It’s useless. No wonder you need CJ to tell you how to romance your wives and act like men.) “Men” who reserve the right to make the sin of lying superior to the CRIME of molestation!!
Larry, how does this fail to strike your very manhood? Did CJ keep your testicles in a box when you “signed” your humility letter? You were booted for lying. A 15-year-old recidivistic child molester lies repeatedly about his actions and because he can read Sin and Temptation and speak the CJ speak, he is put in Children’s ministry. Just think of what you COULD have gotten away with. Your 401K and cushy Montgomery County salary could have remained intact if you’d just been willing to say Hail John Calvin and Goose step down Muncaster Mill Rd.
Che Ahn, how can you remain silent? How can you remain uninvolved? Or are you hedging your bets by some quiet influence behind the scene? Or has it not even occurred to you that you bear responsibility?
Where does this collective unwillingness to emphatically and absolutely call Sovereign Grace Ministries a force of evil in the modern world come from? Dozens of stories have been openly shared on www.sgmsurvivors.com and www.sgmrefuge.com of the tyranny and abuse; and the email pour in from others too scared, or too detailed to publish. I marvel at the apologizing and the endless timidity that tries to pass for humble, clement spirituality: the relentless effort to not appear angry or passionate or judgmental.
Bullpucky and nonsense!
We have lost our sense of proportion. Christians will rail en masse about Todd Bentley’s personal failings and his screwy calls for angelic visitation, but we get timid, meek, and mild when stories of stunning abuse and the cover-up of criminal activity are revealed by former members of Sovereign Grace Ministries? All because CJ Mahaney has elevated himself to poster child of humble communication and a demagogue of the Mathew 18 ethic to mean he gets to reconcile with only those who have offended HIM?
Are you JOKING?
The implications here are vast. When Evil can call itself Righteousness and then parade itself with impunity and those defending TRUE Righteousness must apologize for bringing a judgment, humanity is LOST. Christianity has forfeited the right to be called Salt and Light. And PRETEND apostles are revealed for cowardly, gutless, craven, frauds.
Che Ahn, if you have a fivefold calling now you had one then, back when you were a part of PDI, then the calling did not change. The authority you claim to have NOW is the same authority you should have used to stop the madness. So, how is it you think you are absolved? What? You think because you are part of a bunch Charismatics dubbing each other Apostles that you have arrived? Is Apostle-ness expressed in word or is it in DEED?
Whatever. Your theologizing is irrelevant.
You are BOTH a couple of gutless frauds. If you can’t speak out openly, publicly, and with moral clarity, and utter, absolute, outrage at the conduct of your “Apostolic Brothers” at Sovereign Grace Ministries, you have forfeited the right to call yourself a lover of righteousness, or covering for people. (And this goes for ALL national “Apostles” that fail to do their job!)
Stay comfy in your apostolic office. Furnish it well with tithes and offerings. Be at ease in your silent cowardice. Keep covering the asses of all those other “men” who need someone to have spiritual asses covered. You and your butt buddies can guard the prophecy mic… make sure nobody speaks in tongues out of order. That is a very, very, very important apostolic responsibility. Make sure everything is decent and in order. Keep your priorities straight and your reputations pristine. People need to be able to look up to their spiritual coverings after all. Well… in your case look behind, since you are very obviously not in FRONT.
It’s okay… The work of resisting the evil pouring out of the cesspool of SGM is being done.
The women and children are carrying the fight against the misogynistic forces of evil at Sovereign Grace Ministries. Well, the women and children are carrying carnage.
Hey John… yeah… the work of my advanced readers was not in vain. After I got all of the early copies back and worked through the comments, it was apparent that I had my work cut out for me. The early version read well, but through the eyes of others, I noticed the flaws. So I pulled Blight apart and started again. I did lots of research. I’ve probably read 20 new books, a host of journal articles, spent time in a local Theological library, and went back through my notes from 91 to 97 and my specific pastoral encounters. ( I had forgotten how much I’d captured.)
I have an advance reader from another country, who claims to be an agnostic who prays for me. (Go figure) Their insights were invaluable. From those conversations, I set out to craft a new outline and a better progression–one that made it possible for someone totally alien to American Culture and Christianity to GET the underlying problems. If their feedback is any indication, I’ve come pretty dang close.
Many of the core elements are the same, but this new version is … different and dare I say better. I am currently working on the last section: Getting Healthy. I have a few things to tighten up and some threads to tie together and then I should be done. The only drawback is that the SpiritualTyranny.com has suffered. I haven’t really posted much in almost 6 months. But it is gratifying… the numbers are remaining very constant, which means that new people are finding it and reading through the blog.
Thanks Pia,
Your comments are an encouragement. Long ago I resolved myself to think and write just because I happen to enjoy doing such things, and let the impact be whatever. But when I look at the scope of the issue and how deeply the assumptions have seeped into every crevice of our psyche, I feel like spitting in the ocean would have more affect. “For such a time as this…” Yeah, there is probably some truth to that. I am unique: The product of a specific set of historical realities that have never existed. It is nice to believe that there is a specific function to life, but that isn’t an end in itself.
The reason I am a necessary cog in God’s plan (assuming I am) is because the church has worked so hard to eradicate people exactly like me for a very long time. The campaign of anti-reason, anti-logic, anti-rationality in service to what I call Mystic Despotism has created the need for the nature of the commentary I give. The bitter part of this dynamic is that Christianity has shown itself so terribly destructive. While I fully think that Christianity is the repository of light and life, it is almost impossible to miss that Christianity’s legacy is death and destruction. There is an occasional flash of brightness, but for the most part, our modern reputation is well earned.
It is true that the content here is not the Prayer of Jabez type devotional moment. Some of what I talk about digs into some hard things to understand, but I submit that once the terms and ideas are defined, the driving forces are pretty easy to grasp. Christianity has already been exposed to the ideas, but we’ve heard them for so long, explained in a specific way, that we accept some very very complex philosophical ideas without a blink so people CAN understand the complexity. The challenge I find that most people have is the discrete evaluation of each step in the progression. They are so used to the intellectual shorthand that when confronted with the ideas as a whole, they are tempted to let their brains go tilt.
Man is created a rational/logical creature. Every expression of our highest and best existence stems directly from that nature. We do rationality so implicitly that it is akin to breathing. As an example, logic is what makes humor possible. All humor is based on an impeccable logic ultimately turned on its ear. Without the capacity to see the logic, the humor fails. Dissect any good knock knock joke and at the core is a bold logical statement that even a 5-year-old can get.
I said this to make this point. People were created to understand what I am talking about. They may choose to be intellectually passive, but very, very, very few people are intellectually incapable. One of the more exhilarating compliments I read about this blog was a woman who said it was like a part of her (her rational self) came alive. ( I was so excited about that review that I sent it to my mom!) The woman giving the review was like you, an educated professional, but her church life had somehow managed to cut out a part of her existence that she needed to rediscover. There is something wrong with that picture, but it is thrilling that she discovered herself.
As for the social leprosy… it is a wonder, with all of Jesus’ overt effort to violate the terms of Torah to directly come in contact with the unclean–prostitutes, sinners, tax collectors, etc.– that Church and Christianity still trend towards shunning people who are somehow beneath them. And I marvel at how often the body of thought driving this dynamic affects women and children. That bugs me on a visceral level.
As for those critical of my presentation, I actually laugh … A LOT … about that. They think my words are invective??!! I’m disqualified for my tone??!!! Ahahhahahahaha… I’m giggling at the absurdity as a write. Oh, I am a wee tyke of a piker when it comes to denouncing venom. My critics have never read John Chrysostom taking after one of his doctrinal adversaries, or Athanasius laying on one of his condemning screeds against marriage; and the Mack Daddy of them all, Martin Luther. (ROTFLMBO) If you have the inclination, check out On the Jews and Their Lies. If you can stomach it, read say a page, or two. Invective??!! Tone??!! Disqualified??!!
And my ideas are condemned by tone? Hahaha… They have no idea of the floodgate of doctrinal rejection that judgment opens up. I relish the day when I can barbeque those sacred cows.
Anyway… Pia, I’m glad you are out there… I’m glad you are healthy. Very few people ever really get there. That is something that needs to be taught I think. And I appreciate any additions to the conversation you choose to bring.
Last night, I poked around your blog some more and realized it would probably take me months to unpack all its meaty contents (maybe I should just wait for the new, improved version of your book?). I have to admit that after years of being fed sweet milk from the pulpit (and my pastors are really quite sharp—they’re just a bit too “seeker friendly” for my taste at times), I had to read more slowly than I typically do and chew and swallow, chew and swallow, then finally digest. But when I got to “Frauds, Papists and European Religion,” my mind just went on overload! OMG…where have you been all my life, John? I feel like that woman you described above…parts of my brain I didn’t know even know existed started pulsating and light bulbs started coming on that I didn’t even know were off!
Now mind you…I teach World History to 10th graders. I know the No-Child-Left-Behind-mandated standards very well. I do my job and teach Greco/Roman Development of Democracy, Rise of Judeo-Christian Principles, The Stages of the French Revolution (from the Three Estates to the formation of the democratic National Assembly to the chaos of the Radical Phase/Reign of Terror to the ineffectual Five-Man Directory to finally the inevitable rise of the tyrant Napoleon)…all the way to WWII and the rise of the 20th century tyrants Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo in large part due to the ineffectual governments like the “wimpy, whiny and worthless Weimar Republic” (that’s how I make my students remember it) who practically gave them Europe and Asia on a silver platter. For years, I have been a teacher and an avid student of HIS-story (which is really man’s story since we pretty much left HIM out of it) but no one…no Christian teacher I should say…ever connected the dots the way you did in that one blog article alone.
I had to really ponder this one:
“With virtually no clue of the fruit of our chosen course, American Christianity is tripping down the same European Religious despotic path, patting ourselves on the back for having finally gotten Christianity right: after all these years and all the supposed chaos we are finally back to what God really intended. Our leading ‘thinkers’ are really historical shills repackaging and resurrecting doctrinal justification for Protestant Papacy in modern American Piety.”
I honestly had no idea how far we had deviated from our forefathers’ vision of “liberty” and “intellectual freedom” for all. This statement also had me in a quandary: “We pound the pulpit proudly for our return to European Religion, and in the next breath insist that God founded this country and Christians wrote the Constitution, never once realizing the two outcomes are diametrically opposed.” How could I not have seen this before?
Then this chilling statement:
“The American Church is doing what the European Religion has always done when History’s Hitlers start beating the drums for hope and change. They become the leading force of pacifying the populace in the rise of every fascist, despotic state in the last 500 years, stifling resistance … until it is too late.”
Do I hear, “Anti-Christ, you can step up now…front and center…your stage awaits you!” Wow!
And I could go on and on quoting you and giving you my animated responses but I’ll end with this one:
“We cannot insist that we are a force of liberty in the world if we practice tyranny within our own walls. We cannot fault the world for destroying freedom if we cannot stand firm against our own fabricated doctrines that subjugate the minds of men. We cannot call ourselves salt and light and dare to wield a sword if we cannot sustain the moral clarity to condemn the fraudulent Protestant Papists pretending covering.”
As I look back now at my own personal history…as the youngest kid in a family of seven led by a strong Asian patriarch, the wife of an abuser/controller for 10 years, the loyal employee of the late great PDI corporation, and a trusting member of the CLC/ALCC churches…I was told by all those in authority over me (and there were so many of them and mostly men) that if I just followed their rules (the Dictated Good) and did what I was told, God would be pleased with me and all would go well. Meanwhile, they were there to protect me and cover me…provide for all my needs, spiritual and otherwise. But at age 27, when I first left my husband right before he turned his misogynistic eyes towards my 3-year-old daughter and was ready to belt her, I realized with horror that they had all lied to me. Homeless, jobless, with 2 kids (at that time) under 3, there was really no one to protect or cover me. My church had completely abandoned me. Thankfully, Jesus was there and He did NOT leave me nor forsake me. He guided me every step of the way to complete freedom and I have never looked back!
One night, I had a dream that I was sitting in a library and in front of me were a stack of books. It was late at night but I was really enjoying myself, feeding my own head with knowledge. And they weren’t books censored by my father, my husband or my caregroup leaders either…they were books of my own choosing! What a concept! I woke up and the thought of becoming a teacher came to me. Many years, several classes, and multiple books later, I was now able to provide for my children (I had three by the time I left my husband, once and for all) and had a full-time job as a certificated teacher—“highly qualified” because I actually had a degree in Economics and passed all the mandated History tests. My walk with the Lord was now more authentic than ever and I discovered that His grace was more amazing than I could ever have imagined!
I love that I can now think for myself and I am now married to a man who appreciates a woman with a brain. I love that my new pastors trust me to lead a ministry and I love that today, I was at Skid Row with my church team (as I am most Sunday mornings)–debating with a young homeless intellectual named Dre who turned his back from God and Church because he could not wrap his brain around the fact that the same “loving God” his parents believed in also orchestrated the Crusades. Dre and I have been having these debates for a year now. We both enjoy it and frankly, I don’t think I’m smart enough to ever win them. But I have a feeling that the love and attention I give him on these Sunday mornings are doing more to fill his lonely heart than my ineffective banterings are.
Lastly, I love that I can read blogs like this and, if I read slowly, chew and swallow, chew and swallow, I can actually follow what you are saying Teacher John. You are so right…we need more teachers and leaders with moral clarity who can lead the way–especially for the young who are still not as indoctrinated as we were like Dre—and resist the spiritual tyrants that abound. Thank God I found at least one right here. J
Pia said: Last night, I poked around your blog some more and realized it would probably take me months to unpack all its meaty contents (maybe I should just wait for the new, improved version of your book?).
LOL… Yeah… don’t wait. Blight in the Vineyard is not a rehash of this blog. While you will see themes and ideas repeated, (an article reprinted)– they will go well together–Blight is a standalone work with a breadth and depth that a blog cannot accommodate.
Love your insights…. More in a bit…
thanks John, Look forward to the book. haven’t heard from me as i have been working on surviving the economic chaos, but i am still floating around cyberspace!!! good conversation between you and Pia!!!
I feel like that woman you described above…parts of my brain I didn’t know even know existed started pulsating and light bulbs started coming on that I didn’t even know were off!
This so thrills me. This is truly at the top of my compliment list.
This statement also had me in a quandary: “We pound the pulpit proudly for our return to European Religion, and in the next breath insist that God founded this country and Christians wrote the Constitution, never once realizing the two outcomes are diametrically opposed.” How could I not have seen this before?
Mmmm … This is because America has never really had a religious war. We’ve never had religious orthodoxy tied to political orthodoxy: And for good reason. This was the barrier that the Founding Fathers set up.
Americans tend to take the consumption of ideas as a vast smorgasbord: anyone can nibble at whatever they like and leave the rest. Christians bootleg endless inconsistencies into our doctrinal statements to let us off the hook of the logical conclusions. And we have never been compelled to make a public confession of religious commitment on threat of death. So, no matter how heated our doctrinal exchange at the end of the day, we can part company without bloodshed.
So, we tend to think that people advocating a form of religio-political orthodoxy as a fringe, ‘extreme’ social aberration on par with Islamic extremists. We tend to label them an unfortunate reality, but not really relevant. So, “Can’t we just all get along?”
What Americans struggle with is that some people really do believe that the use of violence, the use of government to compel right religio-political outcomes is the righteous conclusion. But the doctrines under discussion are in service to this very end. That is their function. And like all expressions of political correctness, it doesn’t take many people to ACT on those assumptions to bring about the forces of tyranny. This leaven can infect the whole lump with profound speed. As a student of 1927 to 1933 Weimar Republic, you know how fast these ideas can blow through a culture. From the publication of Mien Kampf to the establishment of The National Socialists was 6-ish years. Gerhard Kittel, Paul Althaus and Emanuel Hirsch were primary Christian thinkers and made the case for the theo-political expectations. So, the Lutheran church was front and center advocating the primary elements of their 25-point program. (And the Catholic Center party was in a mad dash to Socialism all the while trying to denounce Stalinist Bolshevism. Oh, the utter insanity.)
And the amazing part is the voices of Christian descent to the rise of the political climate (NOT HITLER) can be counted on one hand. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was virtually a lone voice, and he was ineffective because he conceded so many premises that his political and religious adversaries demanded. He could not offer a counter philosophy because he conceded the solutions already offered. He was a brilliant Christian thinker, but he could not stem the ideological tide because he did not reject the roots of the arguments.
Do I hear, “Anti-Christ, you can step up now…front and center…your stage awaits you!” Wow!
Every despot rises to power in a philosophical vacuum where his strength and power and utter determination to impose his will rolls through an empty people without ANY will to oppose. The Anti-Christ will be no different than any other tyrant. People will love him, and the few that try to resist will be destroyed. The only remedy to any despot is a people utterly secure in their moral clarity to demand liberty.
As I look back now at my own personal history…as the youngest kid in a family of seven led by a strong Asian patriarch….
Oh… sigh… Patriarchy. I don’t have anything profound to say about this… it just bugs me on so many levels. One of the many evils of the world sanctified by “scripture” … So many women have had their lives ripped apart directly related to the insane preoccupation of Men to doctrinally stroke their egos. You are a rare woman to have survived it so well.
Lastly, I love that I can read blogs like this and, if I read slowly, chew and swallow, chew and swallow, I can actually follow what you are saying Teacher John. You are so right…we need more teachers and leaders with moral clarity who can lead the way–especially for the young who are still not as indoctrinated as we were like Dre—and resist the spiritual tyrants that abound. Thank God I found at least one right here.
Uh… dare I say it? So be that teacher? I suspect you are already very skilled in this ability. It is your profession after all. And you have demonstrated a life of proactivity. If your history written above is any measure… you’d be great at this very thing.
Thank you for your vote of confidence, John! You are right that as a teacher, I have a responsibility to train critical thinkers who will be able to reason for themselves and resist tyranny of any kind–even smell it a mile away and have the guts to speak out against it.
Interestingly enough, we came back from our Spring Break today and had a guest speaker lead us on all-day staff development seminar. Having taught for 14 years, I honestly thought this would be another one of those seminars that would be a wasted use of tax payers’ money. But God must really be wanting to get my attention because the guest speaker was a woman named Dr. Linda Elder, the foremost leading “expert” on Critical Thinking who has written tons of stuff on the subject and is widely known in educational circles. I first read her writings when I was doing my Master’s years ago and it was a treat to hear her in person. Almost everything she said today was exactly what you and I have been talking about regarding most people’s unwillingness to become true intellectuals. One thing she said made me laugh, “Some of the loudest critics are those who don’t even understand what they are criticizing but won’t make any effort to truly comprehend the material. They assume right away that they know what it’s all about and make fools of themselves without even knowing it!” I thought to myself, “Sounds like some of John’s critics!”
Anyway, if you’d like to read some of her materials, you can google her. I also took the liberty of copying and pasting one of her articles:
Valuable Intellectual Traits by Dr. Linda Elder
Intellectual Humility: Having a consciousness of the limits of one’s knowledge, including a sensitivity to circumstances in which one’s native egocentrism is likely to function self-deceptively; sensitivity to bias, prejudice and limitations of one’s viewpoint. Intellectual humility depends on recognizing that one should not claim more than one actually knows. It does not imply spinelessness or submissiveness. It implies the lack of intellectual pretentiousness, boastfulness, or conceit, combined with insight into the logical foundations, or lack of such foundations, of one’s beliefs.
Intellectual Courage: Having a consciousness of the need to face and fairly address ideas, beliefs or viewpoints toward which we have strong negative emotions and to which we have not given a serious hearing. This courage is connected with the recognition that ideas considered dangerous or absurd are sometimes rationally justified (in whole or in part) and that conclusions and beliefs inculcated in us are sometimes false or misleading. To determine for ourselves which is which, we must not passively and uncritically “accept” what we have “learned.” Intellectual courage comes into play here, because inevitably we will come to see some truth in some ideas considered dangerous and absurd, and distortion or falsity in some ideas strongly held in our social group. We need courage to be true to our own thinking in such circumstances. The penalties for non-conformity can be severe.
Intellectual Empathy: Having a consciousness of the need to imaginatively put oneself in the place of others in order to genuinely understand them, which requires the consciousness of our egocentric tendency to identify truth with our immediate perceptions of long-standing thought or belief. This trait correlates with the ability to reconstruct accurately the viewpoints and reasoning of others and to reason from premises, assumptions, and ideas other than our own. This trait also correlates with the willingness to remember occasions when we were wrong in the past despite an intense conviction that we were right, and with the ability to imagine our being similarly deceived in a case-at-hand.
Intellectual Integrity: Recognition of the need to be true to one’s own thinking; to be consistent in the intellectual standards one applies; to hold one’s self to the same rigorous standards of evidence and proof to which one holds one’s antagonists; to practice what one advocates for others; and to honestly admit discrepancies and inconsistencies in one’s own thought and action.
Intellectual Perseverance: Having a consciousness of the need to use intellectual insights and truths in spite of difficulties, obstacles, and frustrations; firm adherence to rational principles despite the irrational opposition of others; a sense of the need to struggle with confusion and unsettled questions over an extended period of time to achieve deeper understanding or insight.
Faith In Reason: Confidence that, in the long run, one’s own higher interests and those of humankind at large will be best served by giving the freest play to reason, by encouraging people to come to their own conclusions by developing their own rational faculties; faith that, with proper encouragement and cultivation, people can learn to think for themselves, to form rational viewpoints, draw reasonable conclusions, think coherently and logically, persuade each other by reason and become reasonable persons, despite the deep-seated obstacles in the native character of the human mind and in society as we know it.
Fairmindedness: Having a consciousness of the need to treat all viewpoints alike, without reference to one’s own feelings or vested interests, or the feelings or vested interests of one’s friends, community or nation; implies adherence to intellectual standards without reference to one’s own advantage or the advantage of one’s group.
———————–
While many of her ideas definitely resonate with me, I want to highlight the following about intellectual courage:
“This courage is connected with the recognition that ideas considered dangerous or absurd are sometimes rationally justified (in whole or in part) and that conclusions and beliefs inculcated in us are sometimes false or misleading. To determine for ourselves which is which, we must not passively and uncritically “accept” what we have “learned.” Intellectual courage comes into play here, because inevitably we will come to see some truth in some ideas considered dangerous and absurd, and distortion or falsity in some ideas strongly held in our social group. We need courage to be true to our own thinking in such circumstances. The penalties for non-conformity can be severe.”
Again, I had to think of the PDI/SGM groupthink phenomenon when I read this and felt almost embarassed that it took me so long to see how dangerous and absurd their ideas were and how long it took me to stand up and speak out publicly (without covering up my identity) so others still trapped in the system could be warned. In fact, had I not found Kris’ blog, I might never have opened my mouth. Losing almost everything to leave my tyrannical husband and eventually my tyrannical church was indeed a severe penalty at that time…but man, it saved my soul; my kids’ emotional, mental and physical health; and my authentic relationship with God. Standing up for TRUTH might be terribly severe (look what happened to the prophets and to Jesus) but it is sooo worth it in the end and it will indeed set you free!
“…because the guest speaker was a woman named Dr. Linda Elder, the foremost leading “expert” on Critical Thinking …”
Public schools? Seeking to teach critical thinking? What? No more of John Dewey’s pragmatic progressive education? Let me check the sky to see if it is falling. LOLOLOL
***
“I first read her writings when I was doing my Master’s years ago and it was a treat to hear her in person. Almost everything she said today was exactly what you and I have been talking about regarding most people’s unwillingness to become true intellectuals.”
Well… this is a challenge, because at the moment our leading philosophical leader is Kant… who laid the ax to the root of Man’s rational faculties, and gave new life to the Plato/Augustinian worldview that has dominated western thought for a very long time, when you keep telling people that thinking is useless and ideas are irrelevant, and philosophy is vain, eventually everyone say “piiffle… we don’t need no stinkin’ thinkin.’ “ For thinking to become important, for intellectuals to return, we must advocate rational value. Then we must defend the intellectual by defending his property at all costs.
***
” Losing almost everything to leave my tyrannical husband and eventually my tyrannical church was indeed a severe penalty at that time…but man, it saved my soul; my kids’ emotional, mental and physical health; and my authentic relationship with God. “
Yes, the stakes really are that high. Actually they are higher. Individually, the stakes can wreck a life… if you let it … But if these ideas take root in a culture, it wrecks everyone’s life.
Pia… I am glad you are out there and it is a thrill that you get the point.
Wow. I just passed by, but it’s obvious that there are some women in this church who think “meek and quiet spirit is despised in the eyes of God” is how the Word OUGHT to read… and you have no problem saying so.
Wow. You can’t even see why God put men in authority… you just know you HATE IT!
…and will pretend it’s the doing of men and not God.
Feminazis have nothing on you!
“While this is grievous, it’s not currently what concerns me. What concerns me is the hostility, vitriol, smugness, lack of charity and lack of humility in this blog post and it’s subsequent comments. This ostensible lack of Grace, true forgiveness or understanding of *everyone’s* need for a savior has unfortunately been a defining characteristic of nearly all voices condemning SGM and it’s leaders and I don’t think it serves your cause in any way shape or form. In these rants, it’s extremely difficult to separate the facts from the obviously biased and slanted opinions. This blog post is a perfect example. You’re ranting with as much anger and hatred as you can muster, against two people who have nothing to do with SGM. This kind of backwards thinking and unreasoning lashing out is the reason that abuses take place and nothing is ever done. Who would you be more likely to listen to, the ranting angry guy, or a rational, calm individual systematically holding SGM against holy scripture and defining wrong practices *that* way?
That to me, is the most damning evidence against the entire anti-SGM movement. Scripture is rarely held up as an example, and when it is, it’s usually taken out of context. “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.” (2 Timothy 3:16) So why are you treating it as a hindrance to your cause? How about Romans 8:1? James 5:9? 2 Timothy 2:14? Phillipians 2:1-3? Do you perhaps ignore these verses because if you followed scripture then you would have to extend grace and offer rebuke in a manner that please God rather than just ripping SGM apart and pleasing yourself?”
Well said. Finally, a Christian on a Christian blog, with a Christian perspective and a Christian attitude.
For the critics slamming their brothers, did it ever occur to you that there isn’t critic who isn’t a hypocrite? You’ll find that in Romans 2.
Also, how did you miss the fact that the only people God saves are sinners, and they never seem to stop. That includes you and me. How did you miss the wisdom of God in, “blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy” and “for with the same measure that you mete it shall be measured to you again.”
It’s so easy to get angry and self-righteous. But how many minutes should it take to say, “Wow, Lord. I’ve done far more wrong than this.”
I’ll say it again a little differently. ONLY hypocrites point their fingers.
How many unbelievers are reading this blog and saying what Jesus wants them to say, “Look how they love one another.” The only people you can love are sinners… guilty sinners.
When you screw up (and Jesus promises that you’re reap what you sow, so you have to screw up so that you can reap what you’re sowing), how do you want those who watch you to treat you?
I remember years ago when I was talking to a pagan and somehow a thief came into the discussion and this pagan said, with graciousness, “I’ve stolen too.” I was amazed that this man, who didn’t know the Lord Jesus, refused to let his heart judge a thief because he recognized his own guilt.
Just imagine for a moment how the church — your church, would be if all of you had the attitude, “I want to reap mercy and grace when I screw up, so I’m going to show it.”
You may think that your finger pointing suggests that you’ve got it together, but those who know the Word know we fault others because we’re guilty.
Tell me… is this obtuse?
Therefore you are without excuse, every man of you who passes judgment, for in that you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.
Rom 2:2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things.
Rom 2:3 And do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment upon those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Rom 2:6 who WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
Rom 2:7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Rom 2:8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
Rom 2:9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
Rom 2:10 but glory and honor and peace to every man who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 2:11 For there is no partiality with God.
I’ve actually been in people’s presence and shared these Scriptures and guess what ALL of them say.
“I am not!” “I did not!”
Yeah, God’s stupid and a liar. He made it up because He doesn’t have good sense.
Look how long it has taken CJ to come to see his pride. It’s been years. That should give you pause to look in the mirror and say, “Oh God, put a watch over my mouth!”
As I said, I was just passing by. I know none of you and have never even met any of you. I only see the pride, hate, judgment and contempt and realize that WHILE you’re pointing the finger, walk in front of the mirror. Stop focusing on the sins and remember that Jesus ONLY forgives the guilty. Aren’t we supposed to be like Him?
Not crucified with the women…
You know… there is no end of irony when a man decides to lecture women on the God appointed nature of their place, but can’t do it with their own name, and will not supply the blog owner with a valid email address. If you are going to thump your misogynistic chest in the name of biblical purity, you might consider having the courage to put your own name on the tirade. So quit being a big metro sexual, take off the burka and let the glory of your masculine superiority shine through for everyone to see.
As for calling the women posting on this blog Feminazi’s…. I know that small minds must steal the intellectual creativity and abilities of others, but if you are going to hijack Rush Limbaugh’s coined term Feminazi at least use it correctly.
I see it’s not just the women eaten up with feminism.
Lol… evidently true… you’re the one hiding Hahahahaha…
I’ve heard that Enzyte helps male confidence. It is a placebo, but some guys need all the boost they can get.
My bad. I should have paid attention to the page title and realized from the get go that this is enemy territory.
You like that spirit.
No Thank You,
Define “authority over women”
Define “unbeliever”
Define “sin”
Define “Word of God”
when you realize that presuppositions such as these (and that is what they are) also presuppose that your views are correct and other views, are, well, wrong – then you might understand how it was possible for a pagan to display such grace who “gets it”, even though, according to you, they would also be an “unbeliever” who didn’t believe in the “Word of God”, “sin” or didn’t give a rip about authority of men over women.
God did SUCH a good job when he created us in his image that definitions, dogma, and doctrines don’t mean jack. Try reading anything extra-biblical to expand your knowledge base, or if you can’t bring yourself to that, try reading other interpretations that are contrary to your own. “It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry.” Thomas Paine