This blog apostle gig is exhausting. I have to talk endlessly about Submission and Authority. I have to figure out how to justify an apostolic authority without an apostolic succession since I’m not Catholic.
And I have to protect all those people with my apostolic authority.
Oh, wait…I can’t say that. Because when it comes time to actually cover someone, where am I?
….
…..
….
You know…screw it…I think I have been too subtle. Let’s try blunt. It turns out that I can’t get my Funny Bone re-attached on this one.
Let’s try ranting, raving flamingly, in your face unapologetic. Noel told her story on www.sgmsurvivors.com about her three-year-old daughter being molested by a 15-year-old boy in a Sovereign Grace Ministries church, and the ensuing pastoral counseling ordeal that spans YEARS. The boy lies to the pastors about his actions and his evil. The pastors, in a stroke of utter insanity, play spiritual patty cake with the boy and villainize the parents. Why? What can be the logic? What can be the motive?
I can’t begin to understand the stunning lack of objectivity in the actions of seemingly every Sovereign Grace Ministries “leader” associated with the story. And since every “leader” at SGM keeps note on EVERYBODY, that would leave NOBODY out of the chain of responsibility.
I marvel at the lack of concern for justice: the stunning obfuscation between vengeance and justice. I marvel at the utter impatience with Noel and her husband Grizzly to work through the process of their own grief. I marvel at SGM “leadership” determination from the outset to minimize what this 15-year-old had done.
(What did it matter if the child was asleep while she was being fingered? What did it matter if she never knew? So if I shoot, say, Robin Boisvert in the head while he’s sleeping, that makes the assault less immoral? Can I be on staff if I don’t call John Owen a sissy? Since I did it while Robin was sleeping, I should be qualified? He never knew after all?)
Larry Tomczak, where the Hell are you, in all your Apostolic Glory? Che Ahn, where are you in all your submission and authority magnificence?
I know WHAT you are. A couple of gutless-wonder charlatans more interested in a form of righteousness and a pathetic need to justify your own existence and not a shred of action that even pretends at the power of apostolic office. I mean what EXACTLY is this Apostolic authority used for? I mean really… isn’t THIS the thing you national SPIRITUAL AMBASSADORS claim to be FOR? Defending? COVERING? PEOPLE?
You were PRINCIPAL parts of the insanity that has become Sovereign Grace Ministries. You know the inner workings. You both suffered those inner workings. How can you turn a blind eye to the methods: their power and determination to tyrannize? What are you clinging to? Some absurd super spiritual determination for reconciliation?
There is no reconciliation with Sovereign Grace Ministries…there is no reform with evil. Chamberlain already tried that. REMEMBER! There is no brotherly participation with men whose governmental philosophy makes them Elected Official, Police Force, Judge, Jury, and Spiritual Executioner–“Men” who reserve the right to doctrinally enforce ignorance or nosiness depending on how it serves their purpose. “Men” who turn their craven Care Group leaders into the Waffen-SS. (You care group leaders are no men… go ahead and cut it all off. It’s useless. No wonder you need CJ to tell you how to romance your wives and act like men.) “Men” who reserve the right to make the sin of lying superior to the CRIME of molestation!!
Larry, how does this fail to strike your very manhood? Did CJ keep your testicles in a box when you “signed” your humility letter? You were booted for lying. A 15-year-old recidivistic child molester lies repeatedly about his actions and because he can read Sin and Temptation and speak the CJ speak, he is put in Children’s ministry. Just think of what you COULD have gotten away with. Your 401K and cushy Montgomery County salary could have remained intact if you’d just been willing to say Hail John Calvin and Goose step down Muncaster Mill Rd.
Che Ahn, how can you remain silent? How can you remain uninvolved? Or are you hedging your bets by some quiet influence behind the scene? Or has it not even occurred to you that you bear responsibility?
Where does this collective unwillingness to emphatically and absolutely call Sovereign Grace Ministries a force of evil in the modern world come from? Dozens of stories have been openly shared on www.sgmsurvivors.com and www.sgmrefuge.com of the tyranny and abuse; and the email pour in from others too scared, or too detailed to publish. I marvel at the apologizing and the endless timidity that tries to pass for humble, clement spirituality: the relentless effort to not appear angry or passionate or judgmental.
Bullpucky and nonsense!
We have lost our sense of proportion. Christians will rail en masse about Todd Bentley’s personal failings and his screwy calls for angelic visitation, but we get timid, meek, and mild when stories of stunning abuse and the cover-up of criminal activity are revealed by former members of Sovereign Grace Ministries? All because CJ Mahaney has elevated himself to poster child of humble communication and a demagogue of the Mathew 18 ethic to mean he gets to reconcile with only those who have offended HIM?
Are you JOKING?
The implications here are vast. When Evil can call itself Righteousness and then parade itself with impunity and those defending TRUE Righteousness must apologize for bringing a judgment, humanity is LOST. Christianity has forfeited the right to be called Salt and Light. And PRETEND apostles are revealed for cowardly, gutless, craven, frauds.
Che Ahn, if you have a fivefold calling now you had one then, back when you were a part of PDI, then the calling did not change. The authority you claim to have NOW is the same authority you should have used to stop the madness. So, how is it you think you are absolved? What? You think because you are part of a bunch Charismatics dubbing each other Apostles that you have arrived? Is Apostle-ness expressed in word or is it in DEED?
Whatever. Your theologizing is irrelevant.
You are BOTH a couple of gutless frauds. If you can’t speak out openly, publicly, and with moral clarity, and utter, absolute, outrage at the conduct of your “Apostolic Brothers” at Sovereign Grace Ministries, you have forfeited the right to call yourself a lover of righteousness, or covering for people. (And this goes for ALL national “Apostles” that fail to do their job!)
Stay comfy in your apostolic office. Furnish it well with tithes and offerings. Be at ease in your silent cowardice. Keep covering the asses of all those other “men” who need someone to have spiritual asses covered. You and your butt buddies can guard the prophecy mic… make sure nobody speaks in tongues out of order. That is a very, very, very important apostolic responsibility. Make sure everything is decent and in order. Keep your priorities straight and your reputations pristine. People need to be able to look up to their spiritual coverings after all. Well… in your case look behind, since you are very obviously not in FRONT.
It’s okay… The work of resisting the evil pouring out of the cesspool of SGM is being done.
The women and children are carrying the fight against the misogynistic forces of evil at Sovereign Grace Ministries. Well, the women and children are carrying carnage.
One more thought… you post that Larry turned a blind eye… in fact I saw him work tirelessly to change SGM’s abusive power but was unsuccessful. He cried and wept bitter tears over this whole debacle. He has counseled others that have left as well. If you are interested in hearing about this please feel free to post something here and I would be willing to get in touch with you to discuss it. Also please go on Larry’s facebook page to get in contact with him. We never left those who needed healing from SGM. In fact many have contacted us so please do not think that Larry or Che just up and left. They have thriving churches who have helped heal these wounds. You are not alone in your anger but please I would request that you do it respectfully! Again, I do not like the leaders in SGM but I respect them as men who are albeit a bit confused!
Oh… Anonymous… bless your heart.
Sigh…
I do appreciate your weighing in here. I put this out in public in blog form which means what I say is fair game for whatever commentary. While I do appreciate your emotional solidarity with family and your appeal in their behalf, I can’t let your comments stand unaddressed. Since you have identified yourself as a member of the family, you are then reflective of the family mindset and a glaring example of the core of this specific problem.
I was originally working on another article, but I am going to set that one aside to craft an answer to you and to whomever else is reading.
Give me a bit, and I will get back to you.
As promised I responded here:
https://spiritualtyranny.com/family-member-tomczak-responds/
Wow..I don’t know where to start…how about the end? I wrote a 30 pp paper on Augustine’s misguided (I did love Confessions though!) notions about living here on earth as Christians as having stemmed from his roots in Gnostic Dualism (he was part of a group called the Manichaeans). It was the classic flesh is evil, spirit is good dualism. It was not well received by my grad school collegues – all men, most with seminary degrees. I was a 24 year old female. I wrote how it shaped the Catholic churche’s view of marriage – and I expressed my dismay at the distortion of the true Gospel…I can see its echoes here in this discussion of women…cherished but not deemed worthy to be listened to – too “susceptible to sin” to be encouraged to use their gifts.
I am a homeschooling mom of 9 – desperately want more – but as I got my Master’s degree back in 1988 you can guess how old I am!
I have like ZERO time to enter into this discussion – chicken is rotting in my fridge and my kids are scootering through the house as I write this – But I was finally driven to enter into this forum because of the death of 7 year old Lydia Schatz.I will lay our the trail of breadcrumbs for you: The Pearl’s style of discipline/authoritarian abuse in the Church/Shepherding/PDI/Sovereign Grace (I was in a PDI church from ’85-’88/Reformed Theology/ultra Calvinism.
I heard a prophecy once that I think actually WAS from the Holy Spirit, and it went like this…”Stop trying to be good, and be yoked to Me”. All of the above are connected in some way to a belief that we can measure up,by our good doctrine, right behavior, perfect kids, and joyful submission to authority – no matter how tyrannical. The truth is – there is only One who is good. There is no city on a hill – only a coming Kingdom.
Carlotta… Thanks for your comment.
I was going to weigh in on your observations on Augustine and ask you to expand your Gnostic and Manichean comments. I suspect that most people don’t know why that is important and specifically noteworthy to the underpinnings of tyranny discussed on this blog. Hearing the whys and wherefores from an expert would/could be very helpful. But, since you are in the process of raising your own football team, I’ll give you a pass on ongoing commentary.
>Snicker<
However, one thing I would like you to say more about is your trail of breadcrumbs. The name Lydia Schatz does not ring a bell… and by implication, her death is directly related to SGM doctrine. That is a pretty …. intense(??) trail. I am not at all familiar with the elements of this issue. When did that death occur? What about that death compels you to comment here?
As many breadcrumbs as you can drop between scooter sessions and quarterback training would be appreciated.
And… to all commenters… for whatever reason, my little comment box is not recognizing single spaces between paragraphs. Put an extra space to get separation. In the meantime, I will work on getting this silly widget to work right.
John, thanks for your patience with my esoteric comments….could be I have a little more of the the gnostic in me than I would like to admit!
I can’t hear or read Augustine’s name in print without going into a diatribe about my rejected manifesto from a graduate history seminar from 1987…who knew such Unibomber-like angst lurked in the suburbs? One commenter above mentioned the Hellenization of Christian thought, and I thought I would put my two cents in about how his very touching passion for God sadly was skewed by his years of being steeped in Gnostic dualism. This type of flesh is evil/spirit is good thinking lead to the wearing of hairshirts and self-flagellation for some – Simon Stylites (sp?) sat on a 30 ft. pole for thirty years to get to God, and the rest became celibate monks, priests, and nuns. Augustine’s writings on “concupiscience” or sexual immorality were foundational to the Catholic Church’s views on celibacy and holiness. I truly love Augustine’s passion for God, but can’t we see Platonism/dualism written all over this? The person above wrote that this Hellenistic thinking influences today’s church’s thinking about the role and value of women because of skewed interpretation of Paul’s writings.
If you google Lydia Schatz’s name you will read the whole tragic story – a 7 year old Liberian girl being raised in America along with her two biological siblings by homeschooling adoptive parents with six other children. They adhere strictly to the Michael and Debi Pearl school of discipline (please google if you are unfamiliar) and very sadly, beat her with a 1/4 inch plastic plumbing line (as proscribed by the Pearls) until she went into cardiac arrest and died. Her 11 year old sister was found in the house in with Kidney failure from a recent beating. According to the sources, Lydia’s beating occurred because she kept mispronouncing a word in her reading lesson. The plumbing line was on the bed next to the book.
This is spiritual tyranny. This is legalism in a particularly vile form. ” If I don’t raise perfect obedient children who would never quiver an eyelid in dissent against my parental authority, then I am disobeying God” Someone (see Pearl teachings) has put parents under the Law , and someone else has adhered to it to the point of manslaughter. The person who informed me of this tragedy is currently in a SGM church. She is not very happy with some of the thinking there. She encouraged me to look up the SGM survivors or SGMrefuge website, especially since I was in a PDI church in the 80s. That lead me to you. In between Augustine and SGM there also some breadcrumbs leading me through Reformed theology in its most (think Vision Forum and patriarchal courtship models) tyrannical form. This attempt (think Puritans) to build a city on a hill (with perfect kids and wives you never have to listen to!) is counter the biblical truth of a coming kingdom. Reconstructionist thought says that we can perfect all the institutions of this world and Jesus will come back to put the finishing touches on our work. That would pretty much negate the books of Daniel and Revelation.
Jesus hated the pharisees’ control of the people…I believe He still does or you wouldn’t have this website.
Am I making more sense, John? I would be happy to ramble on in more detail if it is helpful.
Thanks for your comments Carlotta. I laugh when I think of all the efforts to maker a pseudo-science out of Christianity and then pass it off as the way it was meant to be.
In grad school, I was lucky enough to have a prof who taught me to think. He used to say, “who needs to think for himself, when all you need to do is know. ” In other words, people buy into a received body of ideas that tears away at your dignity. He also taught me that ‘the great trick of modernity is to make culture look natural.’ Assumed. Think about it. I’m still unpacking that one.
In different words, John is saying similar things. Ive been involved in Christian reconstruction movement. Dominion theology. I’ve witnessed rogue, judgemental homeschool cliques. My wife could tell you stories… I observed a few things along the way. We have notions about truth… Heres one for you to chew on: Truth, as a historical idea, operates in a system of power, especially in the context of community. My major was history, but the real story was when I studied the backstory, eg., how stories (histories) come to be. Why they come to be. I challenge an approach toward truth that says “if you can get all the sources, ll the scriptures, all the … you can know the past, or get to the bottom of it”
For myself, I replace an unending quest for truth with Faith. Grace. It has revolutionized my thinking. You have to begin with faith. The quest for certainty is another red herring. It gets in the way of approaching others honestly, dignified, Christian-like. Whatever the social setting, watch how these two words operate. They tend to define people in ways that limit how they act or express themselves. They espouse a teleology, a determined approach, whether its “don’t let your kids watch smurf dolls’ to carlotts observation that we can sort it all out by exercising Dominion. its a rational, logical and ordered trajectory of progress.. .. We have made a science out of being Christian. And we’ve dropped the ball. Whaddya think John..
Joe,
I agree with much that you have said here – you do understand however that I reject Reconstructionism and Dominion Theology? I like what you said about certainty – we don’t have to have all the answers – only one. We can fully put our trust in a mysterious but loving God, whose thoughts are higher than our thoughts
A ‘Soap’ Box Moment…
HowDee Ya’All,
Carlotta,
It certainly does brings ‘joy’, to ma heart, and ‘tears’ to ma eyes to hear such words:
“We can fully put our trust in a mysterious but loving God, whose thoughts are higher than our thoughts.”
Amen!
Much, of what is pass’in as (‘monkey-see-monkey-do religion’) religion, in the SGM (Sovereign Grace Ministries) system, would simply pail, in comparison, if its members would simply trust God Almighty, trust His dear sweet Son, Jesus, read & be do’in the words in His book,
What?
eh …and do’in their own thinking, for cry’in out loud!
Hahahahahahahahahaha!
In a little,
Sopy
Roots… & A Stroll Down Memory Lane?
HowDee, Ya’All,
Thought this worth a re-tell’in:
“…When Larry Tomczak led the movement, PDI was aligned with restoration and charismatic movements such as Bryn Jones in England, Bob Weiner and the Vineyard. When Larry left and Brent Detwiler took over as primary theologian, there was a palpable change to traditional reformed theology. One can argue the merits of which view is correct, but there needed to at least be integrity and honesty that the movement had changed direction.”
–Ellie @ http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14504
Integrity? Waz dat?
Hahahahahahahahahahaha
In a little,
Sopy
SGM Approval Rating Downgraded to Zero
HowDee, Ya’All,
Somes times past, someone asked this silly azz question:
But, overall, is the entire… SGM (Sovereign Grace Ministries) church system drowning in a squalor of legalism, control, manipulation, abuse, and false shallow relationships?
Goodie…
What?
Dat sounds like da church fer me! >snicker<
What?!?
He he he
Yous gots to be kidding, right?
BruHahahahahahahahaha!
In a little,
Sopy
Hahah… if more people had that diatribe, how would the face of Christianity would change?? I know that discussions of Gnosticism and all the 3rd and 4th century rest comes off like a bad case of Inside Baseball to a bunch of Football tailgaters. But those details bear directly on what we in the modern age think Christianity is all about. Augustine is largely responsible for our, dare I say, erroneous, understandings of sexuality. While most people have never read concupiscence, they assume the church has always believed what is really little more than Augustine’s profound psychosis.
The ripples… or maybe better said, the shock waves, of mixing Platonism into Christianity has horribly disfigured its presentation and even when God begins to reform our understanding, the Church gets sucked down the path of that dualistic mindset under the compulsion of tyranny.
As for Lydia Schatz, I am not familiar enough with Pearl to comment effectively. I did reach out to some folks to see if this was indeed an SGM thing. And the reaction was mixed. They did/do advocate the Pearl’s books and resources, but not so much now. (???) They do advocate many of the same ideology when it comes to raising children. But to date, there are no reports (to my knowledge) of similar abuse or harm from the children within the SGM structure.
Here’s one article: http://www.paradisepost.com/news/ci_14427370
Here’s some good analysis: http://online.worldmag.com/2010/02/25/to-brainwash-a-parent/
Of course, readers you can google Lydia Schatz and get more info.
And Carlotta …you are so right: “This is spiritual tyranny. This is legalism in a particularly vile form. ” If I don’t raise perfect, obedient children who would never quiver an eyelid in dissent against my parental authority, then I am disobeying God.”
The progression of ideas that one must hold to begin advocating such things is at their core horrific. Add to that, a doctrine that says “you’re a sinner, you’re a sinner, you’re a sinner.” There is no way out from under this impossible standard. The human psyche is not designed to live in the face of such dreadful internal conflict. This kind of physiological pain inflicted on a young mind is what produces some of the most twisted humans known to man.
Has she left? If not, I must say I am always amazed at this dynamic. People can listen to the SGM teaching and observe the practice have huge concerns in their soul about what they hear, know of objective catastrophic failures of the outworking within their doctrine, and STILL remain.
Anyway…
I am not much of a reconstruction-ist myself. Long ago I realized that what the book of the Revelation describes is nothing more than the logical conclusion of Adam’s rebellion. Because of some profoundly inaccurate teaching designed to bolster Augustine’s syncretism, most people don’t grasp what really happened in the Garden. Sooo …. understanding the whys and wherefores of how this all wraps up eludes them too.
I have hinted at this in various articles. Jesus’ issue with the Pharisees revolved around what he identified as Leaven. There was something about the content of what they preached that was corrupting. I spent about three years in the Woodstock Theological library in Georgetown ferreting out what that was all about. Eventually, I will have to turn my attention full-bore to bring those concepts to light, because that leaven is the fuel of spiritual tyranny…
Deep breath…
So much to do…
And Carlotta … you are making plenty of sense. I’m glad you are reading… and welcome your input as you have time raising your football team.
Thanks John – I’m going on a low internet availability road trip with the family for my husband’s Spring break – will try to corral my thoughts and come up some coherent sentences to add to the pot when I get back. Please pray for the Schatz’s shattered family…those poor kids.
Thank you for having this forum, it is my first foray into the cyberworld, and it has given me a chance to put into words some thoughts that have been swirling around in there.
Joe, an interesting way to put this… “I laugh when I think of all the efforts to maker a pseudo-science out of Christianity and then pass it off as the way it was meant to be.”
I’ve been trying to decide how best to respond; so many comments to be made about so many different concepts. It would be easy-ish to turn this into a post of its own. But… not ready to lay it all out. My goal is to keep this tight but that will also mean I will leave a lot unsaid. Oh, well… that can’t be helped.
I have said these two things in other places: Man abhors chaos. Man must integrate his understanding of the world. These are drives so implicit to his nature, so consuming of his energy that he cannot escape this any more than he can escape needing water and salt.
But here is the problem: chaos is built into the very fabric of creation. Nothing in creation is stable… BY DESIGN. As a result, man wakes every day staring into the face of something he cannot abide. For many people, this is the single greatest source of their psychic pain. Their days are spent in an endless tumult over looking for “certainty” that eludes them like so much vapor.
I observe three reactions to this reality:
1. Overwhelmed by chaos, they tune it out, reduce their awareness to the concretes of the moments and act surprised when the gremlins of chaos strike.
2. Others decide there is no absolute and let their minds wonder aimlessly from transient truth to transient truth, surprised when they encounter a surety, and dismiss it with some form of philosophical cynicism.
3. Create an all encompassing Highest Truth, declare it superior and everything else subordinate. Declare commitment to that truth the measure of authentic humanity, and seek to create a Future State, founded on that highest truth, declaring such an event would make the world neat and tidy.
Pause a moment and consider: you will see that most all philosophical systems are in service to one of the three reactions above.
Dear Spiritual Tyranny Reader, if you are looking for an example of the first, maybe gaze in the mirror.
The second point is Kantian philosophy and the horrific aftermath of his assertions. The modern age has suffered his effort to separate man from his mind, and his mind from reality, and we have reaped the disaster of that whirlwind in the subsequent tides of bankrupt intellectual schools of thought.
There is absolute truth but humanity has always struggled to grasp the NATURE of that absolute. He does not grasp its nature because man is, at his core, determined to wage war against truth. It is in this warfare that Man exchanges truth for a lie. There is nothing accidental in that transaction. Man purposes to take what he can observe and absolve himself of the correct response: this piles chaos on chaos by piling violence on reality. And here is the thing: reality hits back.
The aftermath of this violence is an ongoing descent into ever increasing measures of self-inflicted temporal disaster as man, by steps, exchanges truth for a lie, and another truth for a lie. He will travel this path all the way to absolute degradation and at the very bottom will chip an image out of stone, prostrate himself in one last vain effort to integrate the world into a cohesive whole. The ultimate irony: man seeking to lay the chaos of his deliberate neglect at the feet of an image wood.
The third is Christianity with all of its sub-movements and denominations in spades. Plus Communism, and Islam, and a host of other social movements that are determined to build a future state. Most all spiritual tyranny occurs in service to this future state driven by the concept of a Highest Truth. This comes from believing that truth is like a ruler that can be wielded by anyone, to measure everything else by a static line. But the ruler gets broken into pieces and then more pieces as each group adopts its own Highest Truth and beats people about the head and shoulders in a mad effort to create a mythical future state where it all makes sense. IF everyone would just live in service to this ONE TRUTH, all would be right in the world. So those aspiring to the Highest Truth will seek to create government to bring forth that Future State:
· The prophesied moment when the lions will lay down with the lambs and man beat his swords in to plows.
· The worker’s paradise manifests and the pure men of the proletariat tills the soil peaceably and all have according to their need, from each according to their ability.
· The day when Allah swallows the infidel and the faithful attain peace and enter paradise.
· The earth will bring forth its bounty, and the forces of nature will return to benevolence, as Gaia, pleased by the endless interconnectedness holds all as ONE.
All hail the Future State!
Strike up the anthems!
Pledge allegiance!
Join hands.
We are all children of God, Children of the world, Children of Mother Earth.
We are one.
Feel the brotherly love.
Nothing else really matters.
Commit to the Collective.
Abandon Ambition.
Forsake selfishness.
Submit to Authority!
Make your leaders work a joy.
Kumbaya. Kumbaya. Kumbaya.
Maranatha!
Sorry… getting carried away here. I’ll end there so I don’t succumb to the need to turn this into its own post.
But I think you get the idea and I will let you ask the obvious question.