This blog apostle gig is exhausting. I have to talk endlessly about Submission and Authority. I have to figure out how to justify an apostolic authority without an apostolic succession since I’m not Catholic.
And I have to protect all those people with my apostolic authority.
Oh, wait…I can’t say that. Because when it comes time to actually cover someone, where am I?
….
…..
….
You know…screw it…I think I have been too subtle. Let’s try blunt. It turns out that I can’t get my Funny Bone re-attached on this one.
Let’s try ranting, raving flamingly, in your face unapologetic. Noel told her story on www.sgmsurvivors.com about her three-year-old daughter being molested by a 15-year-old boy in a Sovereign Grace Ministries church, and the ensuing pastoral counseling ordeal that spans YEARS. The boy lies to the pastors about his actions and his evil. The pastors, in a stroke of utter insanity, play spiritual patty cake with the boy and villainize the parents. Why? What can be the logic? What can be the motive?
I can’t begin to understand the stunning lack of objectivity in the actions of seemingly every Sovereign Grace Ministries “leader” associated with the story. And since every “leader” at SGM keeps note on EVERYBODY, that would leave NOBODY out of the chain of responsibility.
I marvel at the lack of concern for justice: the stunning obfuscation between vengeance and justice. I marvel at the utter impatience with Noel and her husband Grizzly to work through the process of their own grief. I marvel at SGM “leadership” determination from the outset to minimize what this 15-year-old had done.
(What did it matter if the child was asleep while she was being fingered? What did it matter if she never knew? So if I shoot, say, Robin Boisvert in the head while he’s sleeping, that makes the assault less immoral? Can I be on staff if I don’t call John Owen a sissy? Since I did it while Robin was sleeping, I should be qualified? He never knew after all?)
Larry Tomczak, where the Hell are you, in all your Apostolic Glory? Che Ahn, where are you in all your submission and authority magnificence?
I know WHAT you are. A couple of gutless-wonder charlatans more interested in a form of righteousness and a pathetic need to justify your own existence and not a shred of action that even pretends at the power of apostolic office. I mean what EXACTLY is this Apostolic authority used for? I mean really… isn’t THIS the thing you national SPIRITUAL AMBASSADORS claim to be FOR? Defending? COVERING? PEOPLE?
You were PRINCIPAL parts of the insanity that has become Sovereign Grace Ministries. You know the inner workings. You both suffered those inner workings. How can you turn a blind eye to the methods: their power and determination to tyrannize? What are you clinging to? Some absurd super spiritual determination for reconciliation?
There is no reconciliation with Sovereign Grace Ministries…there is no reform with evil. Chamberlain already tried that. REMEMBER! There is no brotherly participation with men whose governmental philosophy makes them Elected Official, Police Force, Judge, Jury, and Spiritual Executioner–“Men” who reserve the right to doctrinally enforce ignorance or nosiness depending on how it serves their purpose. “Men” who turn their craven Care Group leaders into the Waffen-SS. (You care group leaders are no men… go ahead and cut it all off. It’s useless. No wonder you need CJ to tell you how to romance your wives and act like men.) “Men” who reserve the right to make the sin of lying superior to the CRIME of molestation!!
Larry, how does this fail to strike your very manhood? Did CJ keep your testicles in a box when you “signed” your humility letter? You were booted for lying. A 15-year-old recidivistic child molester lies repeatedly about his actions and because he can read Sin and Temptation and speak the CJ speak, he is put in Children’s ministry. Just think of what you COULD have gotten away with. Your 401K and cushy Montgomery County salary could have remained intact if you’d just been willing to say Hail John Calvin and Goose step down Muncaster Mill Rd.
Che Ahn, how can you remain silent? How can you remain uninvolved? Or are you hedging your bets by some quiet influence behind the scene? Or has it not even occurred to you that you bear responsibility?
Where does this collective unwillingness to emphatically and absolutely call Sovereign Grace Ministries a force of evil in the modern world come from? Dozens of stories have been openly shared on www.sgmsurvivors.com and www.sgmrefuge.com of the tyranny and abuse; and the email pour in from others too scared, or too detailed to publish. I marvel at the apologizing and the endless timidity that tries to pass for humble, clement spirituality: the relentless effort to not appear angry or passionate or judgmental.
Bullpucky and nonsense!
We have lost our sense of proportion. Christians will rail en masse about Todd Bentley’s personal failings and his screwy calls for angelic visitation, but we get timid, meek, and mild when stories of stunning abuse and the cover-up of criminal activity are revealed by former members of Sovereign Grace Ministries? All because CJ Mahaney has elevated himself to poster child of humble communication and a demagogue of the Mathew 18 ethic to mean he gets to reconcile with only those who have offended HIM?
Are you JOKING?
The implications here are vast. When Evil can call itself Righteousness and then parade itself with impunity and those defending TRUE Righteousness must apologize for bringing a judgment, humanity is LOST. Christianity has forfeited the right to be called Salt and Light. And PRETEND apostles are revealed for cowardly, gutless, craven, frauds.
Che Ahn, if you have a fivefold calling now you had one then, back when you were a part of PDI, then the calling did not change. The authority you claim to have NOW is the same authority you should have used to stop the madness. So, how is it you think you are absolved? What? You think because you are part of a bunch Charismatics dubbing each other Apostles that you have arrived? Is Apostle-ness expressed in word or is it in DEED?
Whatever. Your theologizing is irrelevant.
You are BOTH a couple of gutless frauds. If you can’t speak out openly, publicly, and with moral clarity, and utter, absolute, outrage at the conduct of your “Apostolic Brothers” at Sovereign Grace Ministries, you have forfeited the right to call yourself a lover of righteousness, or covering for people. (And this goes for ALL national “Apostles” that fail to do their job!)
Stay comfy in your apostolic office. Furnish it well with tithes and offerings. Be at ease in your silent cowardice. Keep covering the asses of all those other “men” who need someone to have spiritual asses covered. You and your butt buddies can guard the prophecy mic… make sure nobody speaks in tongues out of order. That is a very, very, very important apostolic responsibility. Make sure everything is decent and in order. Keep your priorities straight and your reputations pristine. People need to be able to look up to their spiritual coverings after all. Well… in your case look behind, since you are very obviously not in FRONT.
It’s okay… The work of resisting the evil pouring out of the cesspool of SGM is being done.
The women and children are carrying the fight against the misogynistic forces of evil at Sovereign Grace Ministries. Well, the women and children are carrying carnage.
John I- thanks. I do try to make an effort to be clear in my communication of thoughts and ideas. It is nice that others can recognize your effort. I am not objective about my abilities!!!
Scot, you wrote: Blogs that publish bitterness serve only to reinforce Satan’s kingdom of darkness.
hmm..
And blogs that publish truth have a way of bringing offense to those IN darkness.
JohnG..wow. you’re in the deep end now, my friend. no wading pool of ideas for you, but I didn’t expect anything less to be honest, given your previous observations. you have an exceptional mind and heart.
hahahahaha. O man.
Hi Lawrence, and welcome to the Arena!
Hey all, I have finally gotten a chance to visit this blog again, and wow, what I have missed!
John, I’ve been wondering. Do you think the abuses done to Noel’s daughter were treated so insignificantly because women and children are generally treated that way in the sgm machine? I remember the church that I was part of as a whole treated women like 2nd class citizens of the Kingdom, ( fit only for baby making and brownie making and meal making, with a chance at the prophecy mic on Sunday mornings, or maybe participation on a worship team). Children were forced into obedience no matter their feelings or thoughts on the matter (such as spanking a shy child because she would not greet someone properly, or forbidding an 18year old from seeing a girl he liked). If we were more valued as equals among the men, would leadership have treated Noel and her family differently?
In the world, men who abuse their women were at one point given a nod and a wink. Now, there are laws to protect women and children. Why is the church above these laws? Do we need to face the elephant in the room? Finally speak of it? That the church has devalued half of its population? Now that would be a conversation I’d want to be in on! While the freedom of women in our country has only grown, the church still keeps them in denim jumpers or maternity clothes. When will Christians realize that half its strength is in bondage to mens’ traditions?
Sorry if I’m spewing. I did a little of that over at the Refgue. Guess I’m doing a bit of squaking today. This is an issue near to my heart.
Squawk all you want, Canary! It’s the truth!
Canary…
The truly bizarre part of the Noel situation is I would bet money that SGM believes they are pure defenders of womanhood. Now granted they have manufactured a dictated good called “Biblical Womanhood” and held it up as an ideal standard to be emulated, but they still think themselves chivalrous, champions for pure feminine virtue.
This whole fabrication sounds so noble, so pure and appeals to our romantic souls. We insert ancient images of damsels in distress and knights in shining armor and loosely apply some Bible metaphors to arrive at the modern day denim skirted brownie Queen.
The dirty little secret is, at the core, chivalry is nothing more than benevolent chauvinism: “I love you, sweetheart, and I will open doors for you and slay the dragons to prevent you from worrying, but I do it because I think you are inferior. So please dress dowdy so my masculine ego is not threatened by other men ‘lusting’ after your cute, adorable backside.”
So I suspect that the SGM leader’s reaction to the question would be a combination of perplexed and insulted at the assertion they do not value women. Indeed, I suspect they rationalized keeping the matter quiet was a defense of a little girl. While the treatment of Noel’s daughter is particularly hideous, that offense was committed by the criminal actions of a young man.
The catastrophic judgment and practice on SGM’s part was their utter lack of proportion. This is the problem with Universal Guilt: it eradicates the ability quantify evil action and act proportional to injustice. Over time, they ended up treating Noel and Grizzly with greater disdain than the 15-year-old recidivistic child molester. It has been a while since I read through the account but if memory serves, each leadership reaction came as a direct response to what they assumed was a challenge to their pastoral authority and that authority is effectively governance and say it with me now … Government is always FORCE. (And they set out to wield that force against Noel and Grizzly.)
How Leaders use doctrines is a dead giveaway to their tyrannical ends. Preachers really use the “Paul’s” misogynistic doctrines to divide and conquer. Incompetent Masses is one of the first three strands essential to spin out the web of tyranny. By claiming women intellectually incompetent, they have achieved two strategic ends: removed half of the dissenting populace from the field and divided masculine solidarity with his wife. A man with moral clarity is a fierce intellectual foe; a man with moral clarity that has a woman by his side unified in that moral clarity…
Hahahaha… Yeah… they don’t make castles that strong.
As for the treatment of women in the church … do we need to visit that conversation in America? Well, the question that really needs to be visited is Bible interpretive methodology. Most people don’t know of the Hellenism embedded in the last 2000 years of church doctrine. They do not understand that Plato has shaped our Bible understanding more than Jesus and the Covenants of Promise. When they finally do… I suspect there will be some tyrants that will finally lose their jobs.
modern day denim skirted brownie Queen
I love that one!
I have read the book, “What Paul Really Said About Women”. Every man and woman should read this who want the truth about the hellinization of Christianity (basically, the word means Greek-a-fide). If women knew the historical picture, you are right – there would be no castle strong enough to keep these ancient and irrelevant-for-today rules over women in place. Believing men united as equals with believing women would be a force to reckon with. The WHOLE church finally free and active through the Holy Spirit. I’d love to see it!
Yes, I imagine sgm men would be aghast at my words about how they really treat the women and children. I heard the words over and over. Sure, men loved their wives and kids. I don’t question that. It is as you say. To cherish is one thing. To have your opinions and gifts ignored because of your gender, well, that is what was happening in truth. I swear, sometimes I thought my pastor really wanted to pat me on the head and tell me to go play with the other little girls. Oh brother.
It took time to recognize this. Women are willing participants in their own bondage. We believed the stuff we were told, believed we were pleasing to God by pleasing our leaders. Some women found it impossible to “model” the gentle, quiet spirit that was so misinterpreted among the male population. There was no outlet for our gifts or our ideas, unless they went through our husbands. It took me years to realize that the Lord does not see me like that.
I hope you tackle this subject in the future, John. Half the Church is enslaved, and don’t even realize it.
Canary, you beat me to it: I loved “denim skirted brownie Queen” as well!
although I was more of a long cotton skirted casserole Princess (being single) but I digress…anyway..I’m with you sister! And John, your assessment is dead-on accurate. The sad thing is they are able, with the sweep of the tyrannical wand filled with Universal Guilt pixie dust, wipe away half the church in one sweep by oppressing women, AND be able to call it godly! Sickening.
Canary, I think this is why more women post on such blogs in general. They have suffered some horrific things in all of this spiritual tyranny, not just in SGM of course. There are women about 2 hours from me at Vision Forum headquarters who are buying into the patriarchy bit by the crap-full. Churning out videos about biblical womanhood, and with women likw Nancy Leigh DeMoss and so many otehrs writing books on the topic, Christian women in every denomination can’t escape it.
By the way, Vision Forum as you probably know because you homeschool, has a HUGE follwing amongst homeschooling families. And they proliferate some of the most horrific patriarchy and tyranny against women and children available – all conveniently packaged for the homeschool market. And they have blogs too, of women who came out from under it. Also, there is a blog for women who were part of the “full quiver movement”, cleverly called “Quivering No More” haha
As John always says, this isn’t just about SGM, it is far from it. The tyrannical beliefs and actions are all rooted in the same things he talks about here. Once you identify them and become familiar with the elements, is it absolutely easy to spot tyranny in all forms on all levels when it occurs. And unfortunately, it is ALL around us, not just in the religious arena, but the political, social, cultural,..it’s a cancer. And it must be killed.
Truly, truly said, Juli.
I know nothing of Vision Forum. I’ve home schooled so long that I use my own stuff. Sounds infamous, though. I tend to avoid local home school groups because of how strong the religious rule seems to be in them. And the gossip? Holy smokes. Also, the power mongering was terrible. Now, I’m sure there are some wonderful home school groups out there. I wish I could find one.
Like I said, women are willing participants in their own enslavement. And the problem IS everywhere, not just sgm. See, I love my family. I’d give my life for each member. I respect my husband (he’s earned it!). I tend towards being gentle and quiet, unless someone kicks an already wounded person, then I’m Zena warrior. I have no ambition to lead anyone, to control anyone, to have my name in lights, etc. I live a pretty quiet life here in the mountains with my husband. And yet, when it comes to the topic of womens’ freedoms in the church being stolen from them, I get…well, passionate. I wanna shout, “My sister saints, don’t you see what is being done to you?” I have discovered that I can walk in my role as wife and mother and STILL WALK IN THE FREEDOM THAT IS FOR ME IN CHRIST! They don’t conflict with each other. In fact, I am a better wife/mother because I recognize who I am in the Lord.
Enslaved sainted ladies who are reading this, I URGE you to read the book I mentioned, “What Paul Really Said About Women”. The author (a man, by the way), accuses the centuries old church of slandering Paul. After you finish the book, you will understand why he says that. Your eyes will be opened to how much the Greeks philosophers influenced what traditions we still follow today. You will be aghast at some of the reasons. Absolutely astounded and dismayed.
Sorry John, I’ll get off my soapbox. I just get so danged riled up when this issue arises. 🙂
Canary, I am going to get that book. I’ve thought (or known I should say) for some time that the church has historically used Paul and distorted his suggestions and teachings to THEIR own end. Paul was the trailblazer for equality actually, a man WAY ahead and in juxtaposition to his own patriarchy-saturated culture. He advocated equality consistently. The gospel clearly advocates equality as well, -how could we suggest it would be anything otherwise? Throughout Scripture God is advocating freedom, individual freedom to be precise. And that this can be attained within families, marriages, and society is clear. But He also warns against those things that will steal our freedom from us.
John, you’ve touched on this in bits and pieces in your posts…what is the thread you perosnally see and specifically see running through Scripture, manifesting in the gospel, that says once and for all that man is to be free – especially from other men?
Canary..being the cheap person I am, I did a search for that book at the public library to see if I could just check it out – and a book called “Sexual Revolution” came up automatically in the search…haha
So I had to break down and buy it – darn! (insert sarcasm here) Since I was already buying some homeschool stuff I figured I should throw in a book for ME. Yippee! So I can’t wait to get it in the mail and start reading it…that will make, um..7 books I am reading interchangebly right now..*sigh*
by the way, did I tell you I met a guy on a plane recently that was reading Glenn Beck’s book about Common Sense? It was a tiny little paperback, and when I saw him reading it – woah nelly did it spark some interesting conversation for the next few hours. Gotta love captive audiences! haha
Canary, wanted to share this with you, Ellie, and Gracie in particular because I think of you three when I think of powerful women’s voices
“In the Code of new laws…I desire you to remember the ladies..if particular care and attention are not paid to the ladies we are determined to foment a rebellion and will not hold ourselves bound by any laws in which we have no voice or representation” – Abigail Adams, in a letter to her husband, John Adams.
Abigail Adams is one of my heroines…she had a prophetic voice it seems…and what she said in the context of the political environment during the founding of htis nation applies to the religious one today. If women continue to be oppressed and not given a voice, they will rise up and fight for their freedom. And we are beginning to see the first bubblings of “rebellion” that leads to liberty in the many brave women who post on the blogs. I admire them, and I applaud them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVloUiTwdO8
Found this whilst blog link clicking today,
I cried.
This guy gets it.
Just TRY to watch this and not have it touch something deep down inside you.
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Jim,
Sup brah. I know this has nothing to do with the actual post, it was just a throwaway comment you made, so feel free to ignore me if you’re so inclined. But I was fascinated by your comment about Plato, partly because I find it ridiculous (but am open to being convinced otherwise) and partly because I’m a college student who studies philosophy in general. I’d love to know how you come to that conclusion.