This blog apostle gig is exhausting. I have to talk endlessly about Submission and Authority. I have to figure out how to justify an apostolic authority without an apostolic succession since I’m not Catholic.
And I have to protect all those people with my apostolic authority.
Oh, wait…I can’t say that. Because when it comes time to actually cover someone, where am I?
….
…..
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You know…screw it…I think I have been too subtle. Let’s try blunt. It turns out that I can’t get my Funny Bone re-attached on this one.
Let’s try ranting, raving flamingly, in your face unapologetic. Noel told her story on www.sgmsurvivors.com about her three-year-old daughter being molested by a 15-year-old boy in a Sovereign Grace Ministries church, and the ensuing pastoral counseling ordeal that spans YEARS. The boy lies to the pastors about his actions and his evil. The pastors, in a stroke of utter insanity, play spiritual patty cake with the boy and villainize the parents. Why? What can be the logic? What can be the motive?
I can’t begin to understand the stunning lack of objectivity in the actions of seemingly every Sovereign Grace Ministries “leader” associated with the story. And since every “leader” at SGM keeps note on EVERYBODY, that would leave NOBODY out of the chain of responsibility.
I marvel at the lack of concern for justice: the stunning obfuscation between vengeance and justice. I marvel at the utter impatience with Noel and her husband Grizzly to work through the process of their own grief. I marvel at SGM “leadership” determination from the outset to minimize what this 15-year-old had done.
(What did it matter if the child was asleep while she was being fingered? What did it matter if she never knew? So if I shoot, say, Robin Boisvert in the head while he’s sleeping, that makes the assault less immoral? Can I be on staff if I don’t call John Owen a sissy? Since I did it while Robin was sleeping, I should be qualified? He never knew after all?)
Larry Tomczak, where the Hell are you, in all your Apostolic Glory? Che Ahn, where are you in all your submission and authority magnificence?
I know WHAT you are. A couple of gutless-wonder charlatans more interested in a form of righteousness and a pathetic need to justify your own existence and not a shred of action that even pretends at the power of apostolic office. I mean what EXACTLY is this Apostolic authority used for? I mean really… isn’t THIS the thing you national SPIRITUAL AMBASSADORS claim to be FOR? Defending? COVERING? PEOPLE?
You were PRINCIPAL parts of the insanity that has become Sovereign Grace Ministries. You know the inner workings. You both suffered those inner workings. How can you turn a blind eye to the methods: their power and determination to tyrannize? What are you clinging to? Some absurd super spiritual determination for reconciliation?
There is no reconciliation with Sovereign Grace Ministries…there is no reform with evil. Chamberlain already tried that. REMEMBER! There is no brotherly participation with men whose governmental philosophy makes them Elected Official, Police Force, Judge, Jury, and Spiritual Executioner–“Men” who reserve the right to doctrinally enforce ignorance or nosiness depending on how it serves their purpose. “Men” who turn their craven Care Group leaders into the Waffen-SS. (You care group leaders are no men… go ahead and cut it all off. It’s useless. No wonder you need CJ to tell you how to romance your wives and act like men.) “Men” who reserve the right to make the sin of lying superior to the CRIME of molestation!!
Larry, how does this fail to strike your very manhood? Did CJ keep your testicles in a box when you “signed” your humility letter? You were booted for lying. A 15-year-old recidivistic child molester lies repeatedly about his actions and because he can read Sin and Temptation and speak the CJ speak, he is put in Children’s ministry. Just think of what you COULD have gotten away with. Your 401K and cushy Montgomery County salary could have remained intact if you’d just been willing to say Hail John Calvin and Goose step down Muncaster Mill Rd.
Che Ahn, how can you remain silent? How can you remain uninvolved? Or are you hedging your bets by some quiet influence behind the scene? Or has it not even occurred to you that you bear responsibility?
Where does this collective unwillingness to emphatically and absolutely call Sovereign Grace Ministries a force of evil in the modern world come from? Dozens of stories have been openly shared on www.sgmsurvivors.com and www.sgmrefuge.com of the tyranny and abuse; and the email pour in from others too scared, or too detailed to publish. I marvel at the apologizing and the endless timidity that tries to pass for humble, clement spirituality: the relentless effort to not appear angry or passionate or judgmental.
Bullpucky and nonsense!
We have lost our sense of proportion. Christians will rail en masse about Todd Bentley’s personal failings and his screwy calls for angelic visitation, but we get timid, meek, and mild when stories of stunning abuse and the cover-up of criminal activity are revealed by former members of Sovereign Grace Ministries? All because CJ Mahaney has elevated himself to poster child of humble communication and a demagogue of the Mathew 18 ethic to mean he gets to reconcile with only those who have offended HIM?
Are you JOKING?
The implications here are vast. When Evil can call itself Righteousness and then parade itself with impunity and those defending TRUE Righteousness must apologize for bringing a judgment, humanity is LOST. Christianity has forfeited the right to be called Salt and Light. And PRETEND apostles are revealed for cowardly, gutless, craven, frauds.
Che Ahn, if you have a fivefold calling now you had one then, back when you were a part of PDI, then the calling did not change. The authority you claim to have NOW is the same authority you should have used to stop the madness. So, how is it you think you are absolved? What? You think because you are part of a bunch Charismatics dubbing each other Apostles that you have arrived? Is Apostle-ness expressed in word or is it in DEED?
Whatever. Your theologizing is irrelevant.
You are BOTH a couple of gutless frauds. If you can’t speak out openly, publicly, and with moral clarity, and utter, absolute, outrage at the conduct of your “Apostolic Brothers” at Sovereign Grace Ministries, you have forfeited the right to call yourself a lover of righteousness, or covering for people. (And this goes for ALL national “Apostles” that fail to do their job!)
Stay comfy in your apostolic office. Furnish it well with tithes and offerings. Be at ease in your silent cowardice. Keep covering the asses of all those other “men” who need someone to have spiritual asses covered. You and your butt buddies can guard the prophecy mic… make sure nobody speaks in tongues out of order. That is a very, very, very important apostolic responsibility. Make sure everything is decent and in order. Keep your priorities straight and your reputations pristine. People need to be able to look up to their spiritual coverings after all. Well… in your case look behind, since you are very obviously not in FRONT.
It’s okay… The work of resisting the evil pouring out of the cesspool of SGM is being done.
The women and children are carrying the fight against the misogynistic forces of evil at Sovereign Grace Ministries. Well, the women and children are carrying carnage.
I have to say, that was refreshing. I think many of us (myself included) still are restrained somewhat by fear of some sort from saying what we really think. And yes, it seems the women are more pressed to actions than the men, but I thank God for the men that are also speaking out! As a mother, I think I can say that it isn’t safe to push us where the safety of our children is concerned. As a former SGM member, I can say that within SGM too many parents have pushed down their parental instincts and are more than willing to sacrifice their children on the SGM alter to please their favorite pastors.
They say, “believe the best”, but I say believe the truth.
Misplaced justice rules Sovereign Grace Ministries, despite calls for change
The way many of us see it is that the bad guys in this SGM church movement crisis are essentially off the hook.
What?
Silence is golden eh?
The sound is deafening…
The church people trying to make an honest go of it and press their leaders for “honest” answers, only to get smacked with new heights of arrogance and shunning practices? Figures.
Little lambs to slaughter? How do you want yours Mr. Mahaney, medium well, I presume?
Well it’s “down and out time” and somebody seems to want a piece of your proverbial donkey. Not surprising.
Actions, so have a way of coming back and kicking you in the teeth, don’t they? He He
Come on now…give us that big smile! That’a boy! Gona go real good with that number on your chest, right?
How does it feel, now that the shoe is on the other foot? Smarts a little? I’m sure it does.
You might want to start thinking about turning over cus your beginning to look “burnt” on dat side…fella!
Remember, failure is an orphan. Who are ya gona play the sin blame game on now?
How much longer are ya gone scream, “ya all have ta follow me cus I’m in charge of your souls montra? I don’t think that plays very well when you’re headed for a ditch Mister, but I could be wrong. People tend to stick with what they know, so throw another one of God’s little ones on the barbie and call your friends…
Religious institutions built on flawed models are kept alive “in the name of Christ”, when in reality they are only protecting the predatorily system they have sought to perpetuate. So go on bro, you’re not alone “in this” by any means. The guy “down there” has many friends.
Religious leaders in Sovereign Grace Ministries, many of whom bear some responsibility for the current crisis, are being embraced by others that bear the name of apostolic oversight, only to their shame.
Is your plate cold? O’ I am so sorry…
Sopwith… Perfect!!!!!
John,
Thank you for calling out these men. All the pastors or apostles that have been in the inner workings of this organization should not be silent. They are not true shepherds.
I can’t help but wonder if it is about money…is their some agreement they signed to keep their mouths shut? Did they get big severance checks, stock options?
If it is about money, Is money more important than we are? More important then God? More important then righteousness? Is it important enough to defile your conscience for? We really are stupid sheep to have ever trusted any of them that are silent – which is all of them.
There ya go, John!
Where are the Christian statesmen? Where are the Christian men?
I’m living proof that a man can allow a system to emasculate him and one day wake up and rediscover his manhood.
Have faith, oh fearful brothers. God is able restore again your strength!
Rise up and be who He created you to be.
I thought Larry T. provided some balance to Mahaney and his ouster disrupted any hope of balance in PDI(SGM)
Perhaps I was thinking too simplisticly. Larry and Che’, I am trying to think the best of you.
Are you praying about this one? Really? It’s a no brainer.
Are you staying out of someone else’s business? You are your brother’s keeper!
Are you still asleep? Take the red (or was it the blue) pill and freaking WAKE UP!!!!!!
Larry’s busy making (questionable) new friends, and Che is busy convincing people that that wasn’t really him “commissioning” Todd Bentley.
I’m kidding-Che might have handled the Bentley aftermath very well-who knows. Who cares… the guy lost all cred.
Oh… you can tell a bit about a man’s friends but you can tell a bunch more about his enemies.
and when it is more important to “commission” someone to lay hands on the sick than it is to openly fight against manifest evil ….
Gutless wonders!
lets clarify…it was more important to commission someone to kick little old ladies in the head, punch stomach cancer sufferers in the gut, and mess around with a lady who is not his wife.
Good job, men!
Ummmm…. I just “stumbled” across this article because I googled Larry T. out of curiosity. (I use to attend a PDI church many yrs ago and never really knew what happened to Larry) NOW I am wondering… why are you so mad at Larry and Che? I know I may sound naive or uneducated (unlike you and your other “posters”) but what do they have to do with your complaints against SGM? They aren’t there. They don’t make decisions for SGM. And further more what good does it do the Christian Community to be “calling each other out” all the time… it seems Larry and Che have moved on. Maybe they have forgiven SGM and don’t really need to re-hash this stuff. Come on guys! Being a Christian is about forgiveness…. build a bridge and get over it…. get it?
Meg…just my two cents (and worth that much too I suppose) but to try to address your question, membership and participation in an abusive organization is not required in order for someone to be in gross negligence (to put it mildly) of their own choosing….meaning: Larry T and Che Ahn, as well as many others are well aware of the ongoings in SGM today..Larry experienced it himself personally back in the day, and just a few months ago when interviewed for an article in the Washington Times he said he was still waiting for an apology from THEM (SGM)…Along with Larry, many of the “Reformed Big Dogs” as the blogs often call them are also aware of the abuses in SGM…yet no one is saying anything.
Imagine watching someone else being beaten to death or physically abused and saying nothing. And then imagine if you said: “hey, I wasn’t doing the beating, don’t get mad at ME!”
Now imagine reading along online to the hundreds upon hundreds of stories of spiritual abuse (some still ongoing) and doing nothing. There is no difference.
Silent bystanders, with their avoidance and refusal to address the spiritual abuse and tyranny going on are just as horrific in my estimation.
So yes, it makes me very angry, personally..to see all that has happened, and then other “leaders” that are aware of the situation throw some lemon juice in that open cut by saying and doing nothing…
I’m a nobody from nowhere..with no seminary training….no PhD after my name…no influence…not a published author..not a public speaker…and no public ministry..and why is it I’m able to recognize injustice and speak out more than these ninny men who should be far more “qualified” to do so than I? They should be ashamed. And, to top it ALL off….I’m a woman!
You said that being a Christian is about forgiveness..I’m hoping you didn’t mean that forgiveness was the hallmark of the Christian life, because certainly it is NOT…but either way, I will have to disagree with your words….
God never forgave or forgives until repentance (a change of mind) had taken place…and He never asks us to do what He isn’t willing to do first. So the ol’ “forgive and forget” with no repentance in the mix is unbiblical. It sounds Christian, but it isn’t. It’s foolish. (and keep in mind, according to Larry T himself, he and SGM are still not even reconciled after all these years..why? Two words: No repentance.
Until repentance comes..you hammer away with truth…in love…but never compromising truth. SGM bears no fruit in keeping with repentance, they never have. And that is a problem. Unforgiveness on the part of others, not so much. Unrepentance on their part, yeah..big time.
I am not a part of SGM but have benefited greatly from their ministry. Coming from a charismatic background I found their emphasis on manhood and reformed teachings and such refreshing due to what is going on in our society. Their conferences have been uplifting to me as well. I have heard CJ at confernces outside of SGM and he has always delivered a word that was Biblical and pertinent to the moment. Organizations will always have their flaws, but I see SGM as trying to be Biblical and true to doctrine and Spirit in a culture that is out of control. I came out of churches that were influenced by the shepherding movement and know what a cult looks like. I believe these guys mean well, but will make mistakes and will have plenty of nay-sayers. Offenses will come and we learn more about ourselves than our offenders when enduring such offenses. Forgiveness is Christ-like and we wrestle not against flesh and blood. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the tearing down of strongholds. God bless Larry T. and CJ and let God’s kingdom be formed in us through peace, love and reconciliation. Blogs that publish bitterness serve only to reinforce Satan’s kingdom of darkness.Let us arm ourselves with truth and light and move forward with a spirit of meekness and healing. This is the spirit of our Lord and Christ.
Scott … welcome and thanks for your comments. That notwithstanding… that is a strange sense of proportion you are offering there. Strange indeed.
Anyway… if you are inclined, keep reading. I address many of the issues you raised in other posts.
in a bit,
John
Scot, Welcome aboard!! I have to respectlfully disagree with you assesment. Yu say you are not a part of SGM and that you have been blessed by CJ’s teaching et al. that is fine. No one has ever said that all of the teaching is unbiblical. It is the daily practice of doctrinal issues for those who participate fully in SGM that is being called into question. It is interesting that some people think Christians shouldn’t disagree with other Christians about issues that should be kept “in the family”, because they think it dishonors the Lord. Well, if that is the case Christians have been dishonoring the Lord from the beginning of the church ‘cuase disagreements arose within weeks certainly within a few years and it has been ongoing ever since, thus all the various denominations and cults that have arisen in the Last 2k years or so. Anyway, i was a part of SGM for twenty five years and know first hand the oppressive and controlling mindset and culture that the doctrines and practice (with emphasis on practice) create.
Appreciate your comments and hope your experience from the outside remain positve. This is a place for those who want to help one another recover from the aforementioned culture and examine the doctrines and teachings that put us in that place. I pray that you read further into the articles here and the other related blogs before telling us we are wrong. i know that i turned a blind eye for some time and reached a place where to support what was happenig was to be in violation of what I believe is clear Biblical truth as opposed to the SGM lens [reformed theology (which lends itself to these kind of abuses)applied horribly] of Biblical interpretation. Enough rambling for one morning!!!
that wasn’t rambling… that was an effective assessment.