This blog apostle gig is exhausting. I have to talk endlessly about Submission and Authority. I have to figure out how to justify an apostolic authority without an apostolic succession since I’m not Catholic.
And I have to protect all those people with my apostolic authority.
Oh, wait…I can’t say that. Because when it comes time to actually cover someone, where am I?
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…..
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You know…screw it…I think I have been too subtle. Let’s try blunt. It turns out that I can’t get my Funny Bone re-attached on this one.
Let’s try ranting, raving flamingly, in your face unapologetic. Noel told her story on www.sgmsurvivors.com about her three-year-old daughter being molested by a 15-year-old boy in a Sovereign Grace Ministries church, and the ensuing pastoral counseling ordeal that spans YEARS. The boy lies to the pastors about his actions and his evil. The pastors, in a stroke of utter insanity, play spiritual patty cake with the boy and villainize the parents. Why? What can be the logic? What can be the motive?
I can’t begin to understand the stunning lack of objectivity in the actions of seemingly every Sovereign Grace Ministries “leader” associated with the story. And since every “leader” at SGM keeps note on EVERYBODY, that would leave NOBODY out of the chain of responsibility.
I marvel at the lack of concern for justice: the stunning obfuscation between vengeance and justice. I marvel at the utter impatience with Noel and her husband Grizzly to work through the process of their own grief. I marvel at SGM “leadership” determination from the outset to minimize what this 15-year-old had done.
(What did it matter if the child was asleep while she was being fingered? What did it matter if she never knew? So if I shoot, say, Robin Boisvert in the head while he’s sleeping, that makes the assault less immoral? Can I be on staff if I don’t call John Owen a sissy? Since I did it while Robin was sleeping, I should be qualified? He never knew after all?)
Larry Tomczak, where the Hell are you, in all your Apostolic Glory? Che Ahn, where are you in all your submission and authority magnificence?
I know WHAT you are. A couple of gutless-wonder charlatans more interested in a form of righteousness and a pathetic need to justify your own existence and not a shred of action that even pretends at the power of apostolic office. I mean what EXACTLY is this Apostolic authority used for? I mean really… isn’t THIS the thing you national SPIRITUAL AMBASSADORS claim to be FOR? Defending? COVERING? PEOPLE?
You were PRINCIPAL parts of the insanity that has become Sovereign Grace Ministries. You know the inner workings. You both suffered those inner workings. How can you turn a blind eye to the methods: their power and determination to tyrannize? What are you clinging to? Some absurd super spiritual determination for reconciliation?
There is no reconciliation with Sovereign Grace Ministries…there is no reform with evil. Chamberlain already tried that. REMEMBER! There is no brotherly participation with men whose governmental philosophy makes them Elected Official, Police Force, Judge, Jury, and Spiritual Executioner–“Men” who reserve the right to doctrinally enforce ignorance or nosiness depending on how it serves their purpose. “Men” who turn their craven Care Group leaders into the Waffen-SS. (You care group leaders are no men… go ahead and cut it all off. It’s useless. No wonder you need CJ to tell you how to romance your wives and act like men.) “Men” who reserve the right to make the sin of lying superior to the CRIME of molestation!!
Larry, how does this fail to strike your very manhood? Did CJ keep your testicles in a box when you “signed” your humility letter? You were booted for lying. A 15-year-old recidivistic child molester lies repeatedly about his actions and because he can read Sin and Temptation and speak the CJ speak, he is put in Children’s ministry. Just think of what you COULD have gotten away with. Your 401K and cushy Montgomery County salary could have remained intact if you’d just been willing to say Hail John Calvin and Goose step down Muncaster Mill Rd.
Che Ahn, how can you remain silent? How can you remain uninvolved? Or are you hedging your bets by some quiet influence behind the scene? Or has it not even occurred to you that you bear responsibility?
Where does this collective unwillingness to emphatically and absolutely call Sovereign Grace Ministries a force of evil in the modern world come from? Dozens of stories have been openly shared on www.sgmsurvivors.com and www.sgmrefuge.com of the tyranny and abuse; and the email pour in from others too scared, or too detailed to publish. I marvel at the apologizing and the endless timidity that tries to pass for humble, clement spirituality: the relentless effort to not appear angry or passionate or judgmental.
Bullpucky and nonsense!
We have lost our sense of proportion. Christians will rail en masse about Todd Bentley’s personal failings and his screwy calls for angelic visitation, but we get timid, meek, and mild when stories of stunning abuse and the cover-up of criminal activity are revealed by former members of Sovereign Grace Ministries? All because CJ Mahaney has elevated himself to poster child of humble communication and a demagogue of the Mathew 18 ethic to mean he gets to reconcile with only those who have offended HIM?
Are you JOKING?
The implications here are vast. When Evil can call itself Righteousness and then parade itself with impunity and those defending TRUE Righteousness must apologize for bringing a judgment, humanity is LOST. Christianity has forfeited the right to be called Salt and Light. And PRETEND apostles are revealed for cowardly, gutless, craven, frauds.
Che Ahn, if you have a fivefold calling now you had one then, back when you were a part of PDI, then the calling did not change. The authority you claim to have NOW is the same authority you should have used to stop the madness. So, how is it you think you are absolved? What? You think because you are part of a bunch Charismatics dubbing each other Apostles that you have arrived? Is Apostle-ness expressed in word or is it in DEED?
Whatever. Your theologizing is irrelevant.
You are BOTH a couple of gutless frauds. If you can’t speak out openly, publicly, and with moral clarity, and utter, absolute, outrage at the conduct of your “Apostolic Brothers” at Sovereign Grace Ministries, you have forfeited the right to call yourself a lover of righteousness, or covering for people. (And this goes for ALL national “Apostles” that fail to do their job!)
Stay comfy in your apostolic office. Furnish it well with tithes and offerings. Be at ease in your silent cowardice. Keep covering the asses of all those other “men” who need someone to have spiritual asses covered. You and your butt buddies can guard the prophecy mic… make sure nobody speaks in tongues out of order. That is a very, very, very important apostolic responsibility. Make sure everything is decent and in order. Keep your priorities straight and your reputations pristine. People need to be able to look up to their spiritual coverings after all. Well… in your case look behind, since you are very obviously not in FRONT.
It’s okay… The work of resisting the evil pouring out of the cesspool of SGM is being done.
The women and children are carrying the fight against the misogynistic forces of evil at Sovereign Grace Ministries. Well, the women and children are carrying carnage.
No Thank You I Don’t Want To Be Crucified By The Women,
So what you’re also saying here (aside from the feminazi stuff) is that John (or anybody for that matter) can’t/shouldn’t be mad at the child molester (A) and the child molester’s protectors/church leaders (B), but we can/should be mad at John for being mad at A & B. John can’t “judge” A & B, but we can judge John for judging A & B. So for you, John is the Enemy here for being mad at the child molester and his protectors/pastors who would rather protect the molester rather than the molested child. He’s worse than the A & B and therefore deserves to be judged by you. And even though he’s also a “sinner” (calling him the enemy obviously makes him a sinner in your book), he doesn’t deserve any mercy at all because he’s badmouthing church authorities, right? If he were the child molester or one of the molester’s protectors, we can be merciful to him, right?
Hmm. Is this a requirement at some churches? (Your church maybe?) Protect and serve (and revere, of course) the church authorities at all cost, never mind that they’re protecting child molesters? Let’s just look beyond how the church authorities treated Noelle and Grizzly’s family. That’s not really the issue here. The BIG issue here is John being mad at how the molested child and her family were treated, right? Let’s crucify John for ranting because a child had been molested and that the church leaders treated the little girl’s family horribly. OK, maybe not crucify, at least not now, but let’s call him the enemy. Let’s call him judgmental, hypocrite, and merciless and lacking grace. Let’s just forget about the little girl and her family. Let’s forget that the church leaders will choose to protect a child molester for the good of the Church. What’s the big deal with molestations going on at churches and church authorities protecting molesters anyway? The important thing is to defend the Church and the church leaders. Church leaders should not be put in a bad light because they’re the “authority.” They’re the chosen ones. They can do no wrong. And in case they do something wrong (because it’s God’s will and there must be a very good reason for it) and someone actually had the nerve to say so, then let’s go after that person. He’s the REAL bad guy here, right? We should teach this person not to mess with authorities. So screw you, John. You’re the Enemy!
The dude in the burka swaggers in here pointing his proverbial finger waggling at us.
Pot Kettle Black
Meanwhile, there are serious issues at hand such as the mishandling of numerous molestations.
But what does our patriarchal superhero in the burka have to say?
He drops the bitter red herring (Bitter is one of those things SGM folks throw at people when they don’t have a legitimate response.)
Now, we get to be called feminazis.
What a brilliant contribution to discourse.
And, Mr. Pot, what are your thoughts with respect to the mishandling of multiple molestations?
Juli… Harvey…. DB… uh…. you are trying to have a rational conversation with someone who…. is not. lol
Juli… good quote by Thomas Paine BTW.
Harvey… great dissection of the irony. I do so love irony.
DB… as always insightful and pointed with moral clarity of the proportion of this issue.
Glad you are all still reading.
Hi John – I’m new here and I have been reading (I think) a bunch of your blog and various subtopics. Can you share with me personnally some of your background? How were you involved in the early days of PDI, Larry T and friends? What happened? Were you booted out? Did you leave because of what you were observing amongst the leadership?
I find your disourse with Pia to be fascinating. I am presently researching Greek philosophy to see what you guys are talking about!
I have been attending a SGM church in PA for 8 years and I am becoming increasingly dissatisfied. I could go on at length but it’s nothing you haven’t already heard before! This business with CJ and our leadership saying “trust me, we will let you know what to think about it when it is all over” leaves me saying “Huh?”
I would appreciate an email dialogue with you when/if you have the time.
Thanks
Dan
Hey Daniel,
Glad you are reading. I find it interesting; you are one of the few to ever really ask what happened to me. Thanks for that. But in fairness this blog has not really been a rehash of spiritual tyranny stories: and that includes my own. Beyond the fact that there are other blogs doing that much better than I ever could, my focus has been to deal with the underlying ideas that fuel the stories, and then what it REALLY takes to get out from underneath the fallout. And that is a very large task, that can’t get done fussing with the emotional pains of the present disaster.
My story pretty much follows the evolution that you read from everyone else: the same arguments, the same heavy handed treatment, the same effort at character assassination, the same guilt, condemnation, and implied spiritual treason. My story is mostly boring and cannot hold a candle to the disastrous treatment of Noel and Grizzly’s daughter, and so many other similar stories. So it doesn’t really bear repetition.
Contrary to popular critical opinion, by emotional investment is has little to do with anger… well, not personal anger, rooted in some form of grudge as such. I don’t happen to accept the premise that anger is by default disqualifying. I think anger is appropriate in the face of such horrific treatment. But I digress.
Was I booted? For all practical purposes, yes. They invited me to leave, in their own, winsome smiling bowing way that implies maybe it would be best, without ever actually saying “Get out.” A strange hedge considering the pastoral staff referred to my presence as “deleterious” which means evil, wicked, pernicious and destructive. At least that is what my Care Group leaders dictionary defined the word. (Thanks Mike and Robin. I still have those meeting notes)
Since I didn’t just leave, the leadership made it functionally impossible for me to participate. I was asked NOT to attend care group. I was told bluntly that I would never be given opportunity to participate in any of their other service outreaches. The message was clear… you can come on Sunday, but don’t “influence” anyone, which means I couldn’t TALK to anyone. And the quarantine pretty much extended to all those people who called me “friend.” When it was crunch time, they treated me like I had cooties.
It took a while, but I realized I could never win against the SGM war of attrition … I quite attending. It took about two years for my “pastor” to write a letter wondering where ever had I gone, as if he were an innocent bystander in the grand game of pastoral thuggery.
Maybe someday I will post his letter … and my response. LOLOLOL… that would be a hoot.
Anyway… I would be glad to talk. My email is [email protected]
Dan, i did respond to your email, however, i am concerned it ended up in your junk folder.