Recent Comments
DB on Rumpelstiltskin and the Gingerbread Man- DB on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
FWIW on Rumpelstiltskin and the Gingerbread Man
Jim on Rumpelstiltskin and the Gingerbread Man
John Immel on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain- John Immel on Rumpelstiltskin and the Gingerbread Man
JLC on Rumpelstiltskin and the Gingerbread Man
Argo on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain- FWIW on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
- John Immel on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
Berlin on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain- FWIW on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
- John Immel on Rumpelstiltskin and the Gingerbread Man
- John Immel on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
- Berlin on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
- JLC on Rumpelstiltskin and the Gingerbread Man
Happymom (Lori) on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain- Argo on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
- Argo on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
- FWIW on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
- FWIW on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
- John Immel on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
- FWIW on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
John Galt on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain- John Immel on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
Jacob on Rumpelstiltskin and the Gingerbread Man- FWIW on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
- FWIW on Rumpelstiltskin and the Gingerbread Man
- John Immel on Pay No Attention to the Doctrine Behind the Curtain
- John Immel on Rumpelstiltskin and the Gingerbread Man
Spiritual Roofie
“We are strongest when we are connected to others. Why do we run from this reality? Could it be that in our pride we don’t like the idea of exposing our weaknesses to others?”
This is a Spiritual Roofie.
“Well, you know that Iron sharpens Iron. You need to have more friends that will hold you accountable. You need to come be a part of our group.”
This is a Spiritual Roofie.
“…But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. We need each other everyday to offer unbelief-splitting encouragement to love God through the cross and only at the cross. If God loves you, my desire is to love you the same. We should get together.”
This is a Spiritual Roofie.
As are comments like “Confess your faults, that you may be healed…” “They met from house to house…. “ “Lay hands on no man suddenly…” that get sprinkled liberally into conversations where one party demands a level of intimacy they have not earned nor do they deserve.
A Roofie, of course, is the drug of choice for those men or women who can’t manage to demonstrate enough value to anyone and need to acquire intimacy by force. The drug is used to compensate for a profound lack of personal definition and values. Its use reveals the criminal pathology of those who will exploit others for their own lack of emotional and social and relational development, by taking from them the right to have personal limits.
Flunitrazepam is the drug’s trade name for Roofie. Its medical uses include anticonvulsant, anti-anxiety, and a sleep aid. But like all drugs with a righteous use, it is used in the despicable practice of disarming men and women so others can use them. Said another way, the use of the drug steals the right of an individual to have and enforce personal boundaries. Said another way, the use of the drug grants unearned intimacy.
The above bible passages and quasi-spiritual sentiments, and many other such comments are really used the exact same way. Of course, like the drug, the passages and sentiments have their own truths to be revealed and benefitted from.
It is true that strength is multiplied by numbers. Specialization is the single greatest lever of human existence, so partnering with others of different skill sets gives exponential power to any individual life. But specialization and complementary partnership is not a function of weakness, and connectedness is too ambiguous to be a yardstick of intimacy. Partnership is profoundly different than collective participation.
And Friendship is not the default outcome of Group participation, neither should it be. Friends do sharpen each other but not everyone is destined to become friends.
Friendship grows from the soil of mutual life philosophy. Those who walk together must agree. Agree on what? The fundamental assumptions of how life is supposed to be lived: the integrating ideas that define values and moral action, truth, and ethics. Before friends can ever be friends, they must first be individuals with a defined identity. THEN, they can search out relationships that COMPLEMENT.
Those who have no individual identity search out interactions (typically GROUP interactions) that compensate for their vacancy. They have no defined values and moral action, nor truth and ethics. They are social moochers, and their moral and spiritual vacancy prevents them from sharpening anyone.
Doctrines of “Community” and “Relationship” are making the rounds in Christianity, AGAIN, for the umpteenth time, trotting us down the path to where collectivism ALWAYS ends: Bloody Despotism.
The Doctrines play on our feelings of isolation and our fears of inadequacy. It appeals to our deep-seated drive to be KNOWN, to embrace and be embraced. It uses a series of bible passages to set a standard of transparency and vulnerability that is utterly absent personal boundaries, or common sense.
Let us all link arms in communal brotherhood, sing Kumbaya in “relationship” with each other. Oh the unity, oh the fraternity, oh the brotherhood!!!! Makes me shiver!!!!!
>snicker<
There is no such emotional/relational utopianism because there is no such thing as community. What I just said, for some of you, is like telling a six-year-old that Santa does not exist. Community is really the aggregate mass actions of people and masses are always INDIVIDUALS acting out their assumptions.
People’s assumptions are always the content of their life philosophy.
Metaphysics: How we define the nature of existence.
Epistemology: How we know what we know.
Ethics: How we Value what we know.
Politics: How we interact with other people.
If your philosophical assumption–your integrated ideas that are the motive power of your actions–is that the group gives you identity, gives you value, you can never have intimacy. Relationship intimacy is not a magic function of location, or imputed from groupy participation.
Intimacy is EARNED. Anything earned is the result of work, and investment, and commitment, and perseverance.
The use of Spiritual Roofies is really a manipulative method to demand intimacy that has not been earned. The use of Spiritual Roofies is really a despicable shortcut around the work, investment, commitment, and perseverance necessary to demonstrate the true value of another human being and the resulting privilege of participating in their mind and spirit and time and talents.
Dosing Spiritual Roofies is in pitting the value of group participation and group validation against the demand for spirit and soul transparency. The side effect is that it disarms men and women so others can use them for their own social gratification. It steals the right of an individual to have and enforce personal boundaries, and justifies a demand for unearned intimacy.
People are not entitled to know what is inside of you. You may gladly share yourself with those who reciprocate value, but you have no moral obligation to open yourself to the core.
Just because someone at church says, “Iron sharpens iron, so for us to get sharp I will be your friend. I want a deep relationship with you.” If someone wants to have a relationship, they can INVEST. And here is the important part: YOU get to define the person with whom you will interact and the value of that INVESTMENT.
Most Christian wounds stem from the use of Spiritual Roofies. People are compelled to enter the “Community.” They are told that authentic Christian participation requires baring their inner selves. They are told their inner self will be safe. They eventually realize that not all people have an inner self to share, and many that do are not really worthy recipients. They soon realize they are not safe, but they are compelled to continue with the transparency.
Spend enough time in churches and you will encounter a man or woman whose real motive for the enforced transparency is to supply information for critique, condemnation, judgment, qualification, and authenticity. These are the college frat boys who can’t get a woman, can’t get ANY form of intimacy without criminal, despicable actions. These are the folks who couch their appeal to DEEPER relationship so that refusal to open up to THEM is part and parcel of falling away, part and parcel of rejecting GOD, and the Church.
These men and women are the worst sort of humans, using the heady power of personal insecurity and spiritual manipulation to command intimacy, command transparency, demand familiarity. And if you cannot recognize them with my above definition, notice that these despicable souls offer no commitment to specific outcomes, and condemn with impunity any expectation to reciprocal transparency. For all their overtures to Brotherly Love and Eternal Fraternity, they reserve the right to define the nature of “relationship” to fit however they want to act. The moment you are not willing and compliant, they drop you faster than a one-night stand.
The next time you are standing round the church frat house, drinking your grape juice, and a sorority sister or fraternity brother start demanding unearned intimacy, quoting scripture, and implying you are not an authentic Christian if you are unwilling…
Check your drink… they are slipping you a Spiritual Roofie.
Comments
65 Responses to “Spiritual Roofie”
Got something to say?
Feed Burner
Technorati
BRILLIANT!!!
This is exactly the problem in churches today and especially in SGM and other churches whose emphasis is on exactly this: family, community, accountability, fellowship…etc.
When books such as “Stop Dating the Church” and audios of “The Dearest Place on Earth” are passed around..you’re right – they are the most obvious spiritual roofies..
You know what I’ve found? It ‘s much harder to be slipped a spiritual roofie if you aren’t hanging out at the places these people troll around looking for victims (a.k.a church)
Juli:
A serious question because they make a big deal of this — do you feel unprotected somehow now that you going to a local church? Or are you going somewhere? Do you feel fear because you are “out there” on your own and have to find your inner Jesus by yourself (no offense intended)?
P.S. — How do you get the nice looking picture on your posts — John won’t tell me…:)
Testing 123
I’m just gonna go ahead and blow my cover…sorta. While I don’t want to answer for Juli, I just want to say that girl is safer (more protected) now than she ever was in the church! Her “inner Jeus” is strong and she ain’t hiding behind any church authority when spritual warfare comes knockin’. In fact her “inner Jesus” has stirred the “inner Jesus” in me. Just gotta say, I Love her (inner Jesus that is)!
Nicely said…
Dan…I like the spaceship – is that from Star Trek? Looks familiar. Glad you figured out how to do it – yeah, John has LOTS of secrets he won’t tell us, it’s annoying isn’t it?
and I actually was asked point blank, last May, by a man (now a deacon or elder, not sure which) in my former SGM church after I left the church, who my covering was now that I had left the church. My jaw dropped and I said “Christ is my covering, of course!”
He snorted and said” “Well, isn’t THAT convenient.”
I replied: “How’s that?”
He said “Because if you say Jesus tells you to do something then there is nothing anybody else can say to you – it’s all over then. YOU get to decide what truth is and when you said “God told me such-and-such how can anyone respond to that? You’ve in effect shut out any opportunity for someone to counsel you or teach you - you are unteachable.”
So when I recovered from my shock I said “I don’t know about you – but when God tells me to do something, I listen. I’d rather follow Him than man..and believe me, He doesn’t ‘let’ me get away with anything. I’m safer with Him than anyone else. You’re assuming a lot when you say I am misunderstanding Him and somehow I’m using my personal faith as an excuse to be rebellious.”
He didn’t like that response of course. But you know what? He was absolutely right! When you throw the trump card of “God told me…” you are in effect stopping others in their tracks because you have in essence told them you can actually HEAR God’s voice! Imagine that. And you can use your mind and know and understand things..imagine that. And you can know TRUTH – oh, the horror of it all! And you don’t NEED anyone else to tell you the truth. Which, I want to know, why are they more capable of hearing God’s voice, discerning truth, and then speaking it to others than I am? Talk about sitting on a HIGH horse. A trojan horse methinks.
It’s all about control. Always has been, always will be. They want to be God for you. Simple as that. Why in the world would anyone in a church try to prevent you from hearing God’s voice and following Him? As John likes to say – let God raise His own kids. We don’t need to help Him. When they attack our ability to think, reason, and know truth apart from the church, they have attacked our very identity in Christ, and attack the fact that we each are created in the image of God. That’s just sick.
Anonymously Yours - uh oh – the boldness is coming out! Good for you!! I have to say that I too see JESUS in you – and I’m encouraged, blessed and amazed at how bold and strong your faith is becoming. Don’t fear “the man” they can do NOTHING to you. You are IN CHRIST. And THAT scares THEM because they know they have no control over you anymore. Praise God! Let them go sulk and rant over their “lost sheep” as you return to the TRUE Shepherd of your soul.
Dan, I don’t think I answered your questions – sorry!
No, I don’t go to church anymore.
Yes, I feel covered. More than ever. I feel safer BECAUSE I am not going to church in fact.
No, I don’t fear being on my own of having to find truth on my own. I have actually learned more, grown more, and had more joy in the past year than in the previous 6 years. All on my own, without teachers, without a church. Just me and Jesus, hanging out. Just me, asking all the questions I always have.
Now, that being said – the first 4 weeks I was scared to death when I first left – which was proof positive that I had no faith. Or at least very little. ANd that I was indeed an idolator and I had developed an identity in the context of a group alone – not in Christ alone. So I had to work through that. For the most part, alone. And here I am today. Still alive in my faith. And full of joy. And not the least bit scared anymore.
John, that is one great post – gives me aLOT to think about! And Juli! Your 8:02 comment – that is a posting in itself. I wish I could “think on my feet” that quickly!!
Juli — yes, the picture is from Star Trek. I am a fan of the original series from way back.
I am very glad for you — you seem to have it really together.
I’ve told John many times I felt SGM was mostly about two things — money and control. He or she who has the money has the control. Your former friend from the church is proof of that — you are no longer going to the church, so they no longer have control over you AND you are no longer contributing to the church, i.e., no money.
Good for you!
I Love Star Trek!
Are you a fan of STOS (Star Trek Original Series) or NG (Star Trek Next Generation)?
Dan, I always liked witnessing the “Red Shirt Phenomenon” of the old Star Trek series..
meaning: the guy in the red shirt usually died. He was the expendable one in each episode.
I’ve felt at times, in certain situations (especially with regard to some SGM or other church meetings and conversations) like I’ve looked down at myself and thought “am I wearing the red shirt in this episode or what?!”
But lately..I’ve found using the vulcan mind meld is highly effective (not to mention fun) when dealing with “intellectuals” of SGM caliber…hahahaha
Ellie – I only think on my feet that quickly when I am ticked off and passionate about something, which I was at the time.
Incidentally, this same message was preached during the Sunday morning bible study as well – as a primer. I noticed within a few weeks of the pastor teaching it, everyone else was parroting his words. Sad, really pathetic. But it happened all the time with just about all the approved teachers. Nobody could think for themselves or have an original thought - they simply borrowed from others. So you had lots of ”spiritual sloppy seconds.”
THINK FOR YOURSELVES beloved! It’s part of the wonder and amazement we have as being created in His image!
Funny Juli, very funny.
Ok, I guess I must be a Star Trek Next Generation fan…I think. Not really sure. I don’t think I’m old enough to be a fan of the other, am I Juli? Anyway I used to dream of marrying Captain Kirk…fortunately God had other plans;o) Off to celebrate my anniversary!
My gosh…too funny. If you wanted to marry Captain Kirk, he was part of the Original Series. But he only liked green women…are you green by chance?
hehehe..he only liked green women – Captain Kirk liked ANY woman..I think his true “mission” was to search out the universe for any signs of female life.
Wow. how quickly we digress into such silliness on this blog..makes me laugh everytime – you never know where things will lead.
yes anon, you are old enough for reruns anway! You’re not THAT young
Happy Anniversary! Have fun today!
Hey Dan, a while back you posted some lyrics from Prince – I heard this Billy Joel song on the radio today and laughed hysterically – it has taken on an ENTIRELY new meaning! And it goes along the lines with the roofies we’ve all been offered:
I don’t need you to worry for me cos I’m alright
I don’t want you to tell me its time to come home
I don’t care what you say anymore this is my life
go ahead with your own life, leave me alone
I never said you had to offer me a second chance
I never said I was a victim of circumstance
I still belong, don’t get me wrong
you can speak your mind, but not on my time
Very nice — and I am a big fan of Billy Joel
Nope, not green…Irish, but not green.
I got slipped a spiritual roofie last night – here’s how it went (paraphrasing of course):
“We can come together in this group and share our struggles and ourselves with one another. And as we open up and discover more about ourselves and grow in relationship together then we can begin to have a place to ask each other questions like: ‘so what made you react like that?’ and hold each other accountable.”
this of course was prefaced with a “confession of sin” by the person pushing the roofies. Only the level of intimacy this confession illustrated was indicative not of an adult, but my ten year old son. Simple social interaction with others and the struggles that are attached. Now if that is the definition of “struggles” then we need go no further.
What I struggle with is indeed far more complex that his own admissions. And actually, if he has already identified the problem in his own life, what does he need me for in terms of accountability? So I can ask him every week – “so how are you handling the snarkiness in your life?” as much fun as that sounds, I don’t WANT to be accountable for anyone else’s actions.
Come on…who wants or needs that level of irritation – I don’t see the purpose or need for such accountability. I can’t control them, so why would I want to be accountable? Now, if I could control them, then perhaps accountability would then serve me well..hmm..now that’s a thought…
I’m thinking accountability is just a means of creating the moral backdrop of eventually exerting control in the relationship. The very need for accountability presumes a few things: (to start)
1) I have a problem
2) I can’t fix this problem on my own
3) to not ask for help is prideful
4) because these people want to help me, I should let them
right there I have laid down my arms (not to mention my mind) and surrendered to the notion that I am incapable of living my life as God intended it, I cannot know truth, I cannot have ability, gifts, etc apart from someone else intervening. I have surrendered myself to the control of another person.
No wonder my single status drove everyone crazy. If I didn’t have a husband, who would EVER “keep me in line”?? Guess the Calvinisitic God of SGM isn’t so sovereign after all. He needs husbands to help him out with those unruly women He created.
Zinger today Juli. Now if you should want help, would you ask for it? And the thing about the husband — that is simply silly.
A great saying: If I want your opinion, I’ll beat it out of you…
Dan – Sure, if I wanted help, I’d certainly ask for it, and certainly have in the past. But that is ME setting the terms and conditions of the exchange..not someone else. And I already have “accountability” with the people I have chosen to based on mutual understanding and trust- not with those who have simply chosen to hold me accountable.
Last night’s roofie would be like a man walking up to me in person and saying “Hey Juli, nice to meet you. I’d like to be intimate with you. So here’s the deal, I want the ultimate goal in our relationship to be for us to have sex. In order to acheive that goal I am going to spend time with you and let you get to know me and trust me and eventually we’ll have sex.”
I mean, how insane is that? Someone you don’t even know coming up and telling you the context and purpose of your relationship with such presumption. What nerve. Yet, this is what they do in care groups ALL the time – “just open up and share yourself with us.” We don’t do that in the physical for very obvious reasons – why do we think it’s ok to do it in the “spiritual” setting? We shouldn’t do it in care groups or anywhere else for the same reasons we shouldn’t in the physical – it leads to one party feeling used as a result of an disproportionate exchange of intimacy. And who is defining what intimacy is in the first place?
No wonder people feel used and abused by churches, esp SGM.
Yeah, I remember the care group experience well. The guy that was in charge felt leadership meant bullying the members in the care group to do what he wanted them to do. I guess care groups are supposed to be places where you are supposed to feel safe to openly vent your spleen. Unfortunately, it appears that was never the case and the people involved can use the stuff you say against you. It really does not harbor a good feeling about other people, now does it?
Dan, no it does not. I despise the name: Care Group. (blech)
these people don’t care about anyone but themselves and their control- their silence proves it. they logically can’t read hundreds of different stories of abuse, hurt, confusion, rejection…and say nothing and do nothing, while thinking it all deception, and still make the claim “we care about your souls”
give me a break. Gee, I guess I have “vacancy” written across my forehead.
You are very correct Juli. But then again, there is no way they could or would actually comment — they have far too much to lose.
Control = Money
Money = Control
If word got out they posted a response on a blog, it would undermine everything they have said. It doesn’t matter what is “right” — in their mind, they are right. Logic, I am afraid, does not enter the equation here.
Holding out hope… for people…
” Today I found myself after searching all these years
And the man that I saw
wasn’t at all who I thought he’d be
I was lost when you found me here
I was broken beyond repair
Then you came along and sang your song over me
Feels like I’m born again, feels like I’m living
For the very first time in my life.”
–Mac Powell, Third Day
“Every believer can relate to those words. We’ve all had those times of confusion, hurt and disillusionment that have been replaced by the sweet comfort that comes from the loving hand of our heavenly Father.” What we are simply doing here is “giving voice to the emotions all believers feel as they attempt to reconcile everyday struggles with the hope born of salvation.”
Capturing “The complexities of the Christian walk”.
“When you get older in your faith, you don’t necessarily have fewer questions,” confesses Mac Powell. “I used to get mad at myself when I’d have questions about my faith, but I’ve learned through the years that God has answered so many of those. Sometimes it’s not right away, sometimes it is years before you get the answer, but He’s proven himself. Now when I have questions, I get excited about it, not angry at myself, but excited because I know that God’s going to show me something new.”
Coming “to terms with the fact(s) [we] don’t have all the answers, but that [we] know the One who does, and [we] can glean comfort and peace in that knowledge. “Sharing God’s love with people has always been core to us,” says Third Day drummer David Carr. “We want to reiterate that God loves us. That is a concept that should never get old.”
There are “complexities of living out one’s faith in today’s world”.
What?
Yea!
There “are different processes in life: there’s faith and there’s prayer and there’s salvation. I think within those, you have this place of brokenness. There’s a place of coming before God in prayer and saying I need some help and then there’s the process after that of being changed and moving forward with what God has shown you and is teaching you…”
And then some!
Yea!
…It’s “about prayer, coming before God and saying ‘I need to be changed, I want you to change me because I can’t do it on my own,’ and then it’s “about being ready to move forward in the direction that God is wanting me to go.”
Note(s): Taken & adapted, from an interview with Mac Powell, Third Day http://www.thirdday.com/revelation.htm
**
It’s about “holding out hope for people.” I think that people really do relate to a lot of the struggles that are in the posts/blog comments here at Spiritual Tyranny, Refuge, & Survivors, but at the same time “one finds strength –finds hope and encouragement.”
In a little,
Sopwith
Holding out hope… for people…
” Today I found myself after searching all these years
And the man that I saw
wasn’t at all who I thought he’d be
I was lost when you found me here
I was broken beyond repair
Then you came along and sang your song over me
Feels like I’m born again, feels like I’m living
For the very first time in my life.”
–Mac Powell, Third Day
“Every believer can relate to those words. We’ve all had those times of confusion, hurt and disillusionment that have been replaced by the sweet comfort that comes from the loving hand of our heavenly Father.” What we are simply doing here is “giving voice to the emotions all believers feel as they attempt to reconcile everyday struggles with the hope born of salvation.”
Capturing “The complexities of the Christian walk”.
“When you get older in your faith, you don’t necessarily have fewer questions,” confesses Mac Powell. “I used to get mad at myself when I’d have questions about my faith, but I’ve learned through the years that God has answered so many of those. Sometimes it’s not right away, sometimes it is years before you get the answer, but He’s proven himself. Now when I have questions, I get excited about it, not angry at myself, but excited because I know that God’s going to show me something new.”
Coming “to terms with the fact(s) [we] don’t have all the answers, but that [we] know the One who does, and [we] can glean comfort and peace in that knowledge. “Sharing God’s love with people has always been core to us,” says Third Day drummer David Carr. “We want to reiterate that God loves us. That is a concept that should never get old.”
There are “complexities of living out one’s faith in today’s world”.
What?
Yea!
There “are different processes in life: there’s faith and there’s prayer and there’s salvation. I think within those, you have this place of brokenness. There’s a place of coming before God in prayer and saying I need some help and then there’s the process after that of being changed and moving forward with what God has shown you and is teaching you…”
And then some!
Yea!
…It’s “about prayer, coming before God and saying ‘I need to be changed, I want you to change me because I can’t do it on my own,’ and then it’s “about being ready to move forward in the direction that God is wanting me to go.”
Note(s): Taken & adapted, from an interview with Mac Powell, Third Day http://www.thirdday.com/revelation.htm
**
It’s about “holding out hope for people.” I think that people really do relate to a lot of the struggles that are in the posts/blog comments here at Spiritual Tyranny, Refuge, & Survivors, but at the same time “one finds strength –finds hope and encouragement.”
In a little,
Sopwith
Dan, sometimes control seems to be about status, reputation, respect…security in a different form. I think eventually, the more control you have over a group, it certainly does lend itself to the eventual love of money, etc..
Ultimately - I think it is all about POWER.
Money=power
control=power
When you look at the history of powerful leaders be them political, military, cultural, or spiritual they had one thing in common: power.
the power to define what is right and wrong. the power to determine motives. the power to forgive and the power to condemn. The power to say who gets what. The power to determine who has value in life and who doesn’t. The power to say who lives and dies.
When it all boils down, they seek the power of God, really.
Hi all,
This is my first post, and I am a recovering Pharisee.
Having said that, I so enjoyed reading your post, John. It took me years after leaving PDI to understand how to think for myself. I had been part of it since the age of 18, too young to understand who was trustworthy and who wasn’t.
The freedom to think for myself is part of my freedom in Christ. Then, there is the “spiritual roofie” thing. Holy cow, I cannot believe that I lived like that, once upon a time. I still haven’t figured out the “church” thing, yet. I don’t go anywhere, either. Yet my faith in Jesus continues to grow.
Just wanted to pop in and say what an insiteful post you wrote. Thanks!
Hi Canary!!
Puddy Tat must stay in his cage here, or he’ll get eaten up ya know.
Good to see you…
Canary in the house! Gotta love it. Welcome!
Juli the “spiritual roofies” you experienced the other night wasn’t at all suttle and that’s a bit unnerving. Though I asked someone else how they interpreted the conversation and it was not at all what both you and I heard…weird. I mean like it was clear as day…yet at least one other person didn’t think it odd at all. Odorless, tasteless, deadly…
oderless, tasteless, Deadly… hahahahah ahahahaha
hahahahaha
ahahhahaha
And, of course, this doesn’t really surprise me that folk didn’t hear a problem. The collectivism in our culture has preconditioned folk to believe such Community Soul Nudity sessions is somehow spiritual, somehow the MEANING of it all. So we fling our hearts open and say: “Love Me!” and then time goes by and we realize that those we bared our soul to were not worthy recipients of such intimacy … and the carnage begins.
This must be resisted. People are entitled to the sum of themselves. They OWN themselves. They are right to declare personal boundaries and enforce their existence.
To all INDIVIDUALS … resistance is ESSENTIAL!
John — you would make a terrible socialist…
Hey Juli,
I will keep putty tat firmly locked up. Thanks for the greeting.
John,
You say it again, so well! “Community Soul Nudity Session” – that is what it was like! We were EXPECTED to participate. When the forced confession stuff began to happen, my husband and I were OUTTA THERE!
Juli said you posted something about the leaven of the Pharisees. What post is that in, please?
You are correct, Dan… Socialism is slavery… no matter what forum or institution advocates it.
Who is worthy of such intimacy?
HowDee Ya’All,
“So we fling our hearts open and say: “Love Me!” And then time goes by and we realize that those we bore our soul to were not worthy recipients of such intimacy … and the carnage begins.”
–John Immel, Spiritual Tyranny
Which begs the question: “Who is worthy of such intimacy”?
What?
Dats reminds me of somethin I reads:
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs of SGM, neither cast ye your pearls before SGM swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. >grin<
In a little,
Sopwith
the fact that it is odorless and the like..that’s typical. and all the more frightening..I think we can sniff it out (like a canary hehe) because we know that stench when we smell it. One waft, and well..stomachs are turning..
unfortunately for others, they don’t see this – because it sounds good to want to “get to know others in Christ” – the overture was so blatant and that is why I spoke up – on behalf of the “newbies” there…this going in for the kill really irked me. It was step one, a roofie for certain.
Dan, you’re right John owuld not make a good socialist. I think if John had lived during physical slavery in this country we would have read about him in the history books. And one day, when people realize they are still enslaved only in a different manner, and have no idea what to do about it, they will beg to hear a voice like his that shouts – FREEEEEDOOOOMMM!
Hopefully John, you won’t get disemboweled or drawn and quartered as a result
so..it sounds like spiritual roofies are like iocane powder…hmm…”tasteless, odorless, and dissolves instantly in any liquid.”
so I guess we could say we’ve all spent the last few years building up a resistance, eh? hahahahahah
Revelations?
HowDee Ya’All,
Dis all reminds me of a toon go’in round in my brainy, brain:
“My life has led me down the road that’s so uncertain
And now I am left alone and I am broken,
Tryin’ to find my way, tryin’ to find the faith that’s gone
This time, I know that you are holding all the answers
I’m tired of losing hope and taking chances,
On roads that never seem,
To be the ones that bring me home
Give me a revelation,
Show me what to do
Cause I’ve been tryin’ to find my way,
I haven’t got a clue
Tell me should I stay here,
Or do I need to move
Give me a revelation
I’ve got nothing without You
I’ve got nothing without You
My life has led me down this path that’s ever winding
Through every twist and turn I’m always finding,
That I am lost again (I am lost again)
Tell me when this road will ever end
Give me a revelation,
Show me what to do
Cause I’ve been tryin’ to find my way,
I haven’t got a clue
Tell me should I stay here,
Or do I need to move
Give me a revelation
I’ve got nothing without You
I’ve got nothing without
I don’t know where I can turn
Tell me when will I learn
Won’t You show me where I need to go
Oh oh
Let me follow Your lead,
I know that it’s the only way that I can get back home
Give me a revelation,
Show me what to do
Cause I’ve been trying to find my way,
I haven’t got a clue
Tell me should I stay here,
Or do I need to move
Give me a revelation
I’ve got nothing without You
I’ve got nothing without You
Oh, give me a revelation
I’ve got nothing without You
I’ve got nothing without You”
–Third Day; Revelations
In a little,
Sopwith
Fantastic Sop.
These days people far to easily look for someone else to solve their problems…which, for just a small amount of effort, they could do it themselves. This is not true for everyone of course and sometimes, it is good to ask for help.
John has already been figuratively drawn and quartered…but he pulled himself back together. He asked for help when he needed to and he has been a great help to me the last few months.
In that case I clearly can not choose the cup in front of you!
That is kind of sad anonymouslyyours — somebody chose to be enslaved?
Perhaps I should have thought that one through a little more. I was going for a play on quotes from Juli’s above mention of the princess Bride scene.
Gotcha.
Anon…”I clearly can’t choose the cup in front of ME!” hahahahah! That was a great one!
Star Trek AND Princess Bride..what an ecclectic bunch we are…(and not to mention Braveheart, uh, sort of)
hey John, glad you pulled yourself back together there…guess you’re “Not dead yet!”
heeheehee
(had to add some Monty Python to the mix)
Juli — you are awesome — you know Monty Python….
“Run Away!!!!”
King Arthur: I am your king.
Woman: Well I didn’t vote for you.
King Arthur: You don’t vote for kings.
Woman: Well how’d you become king then?
[Angelic music plays... ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.
Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lyin’ in ponds distributin’ swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Dennis: Oh, but you can’t expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.
Dennis: Oh but if I went ’round sayin’ I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d put me away.
Dennis: Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I’m being repressed!
BAHAHAH!! Gotta love it..
Juli, you really are too much. I’m cuttin’ you off! No more iocaine powder for you!
What….? Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate? Maybe a special kind of sparrow…
Do…or do not. There is no try…
Yoda
KHAN!!!!!!!!!
you know…that scene in Monty Python is brilliant – it depicts the rationale behind government’s/the church’s concept of “divine authority” over the masses rather well..
it is in fact equally as ludicrous as the scene…but instead of a watery tart bestowing all power and authority, it is an apostle..or birthright, heredity, or whatever…still, silliness.
Juli: Listen, strange men with self-imposed titles of apostle distributin’ apostolic directives is no basis for a system of authority within the Body of Christ. But if I went ’round sayin’ I was Overseer of Your Souls, just because I attended a ten month school and some ”graced” men laid hands on me, they’d put me away.
Juli,
Brilliant!
So would you believe me if I told you God lead me to be the overseer of your soul;o)
No, don’t think so anony — not anything against you but I don’t think I could trust another human being with that big of a job.
Juli — all things being equal, they would probably cart you away…and if I believed you, I probably should be carted away.
What would anyone trust another human being that much…maybe between a husband and wife but still…
I happen to think one should responsible for their own soul…
Dan, anony was kidding…she knows what I think about the whole “Overseer” thing….and the “speaking truth into one another’s lives” blah blah.
well, even with a husband and wife, they should both be whole before the marriage, not try to make themselves whole during it. Otherwise, you end up frustrated..having expectations and needs you are wanting another person to fulfil, and they can’t and won’t always be able or willing to. So then what do you do?
If we are whole in Christ..we need nothing else. And anything else we are given..well, other people should never be our “Everything”..but they can certainly be our “more than enough.”
Well anony needs to put a sarcasm tag on her comments then…:)
Sorry, sarcasm is hard to type. I’ll keep my personally directed snarkiness to myself:o) I was playing on the fact that Juli had once been told that if you say “God lead me” to do such and such that means your statement can not be refuted because “God lead you” to do it.
speaking of that anon, that is a spiritual roofie of the worst sort…in the sense that they remove intimacy with Christ and presume to take His place of intimacy in your life – UGH!
Doesn’t sound like any fun…
yeah, especially since God is way cooler than the men in SGM…hehehehe
[...] Spiritual Roofie [...]