as John I. would say…..peace.

you are among friends here. the ability to sort through the mental, emotional and spiritual comes through persistence. so, I wanted to encourage you to keep seeking the truth – because it is the truth that sets us free.

and if you believe in freedom, then you must believe that man’s individual ability to know, apprehend, and understand truth is essential, and foundational.

you’ve already self-identified some things that prevented this progression in your own life previously…now that some of those pressures are no longer perceived as pressures, it does get easier, and fast.

hold on to your hat….it gets fun from here on out 

Anyone with half the ability to think clearly sees that the men who have LEFT SGM, at least, have some integrity. And two of those men happen to host blogs that help others. Hmmm…

Paul – why don’t you stop trying to confuse readers and stop starting your own gossip by not mixing up your facts…you are making accusations against John that you clearly intended for Jim and vice versa…get your BLOGS straight, get the NAMES OF THESE MEN straight, get your FACTS straight, and THEN come back and try to tell these men to get THEIR facts straight…do you even realize how foolish your comments come across simply because you can’t keep basic information like that straight in your own head? Sheesh…

for the record: Jim hosts SGM Refuge. John hosts Spiritualtyranny, that would be the site you are presently reading. They are not competitors as you suggested. They are in fact friends. What exactly would you think they would compete for since neither of them make any money by speaking the truth and helping people??

Oh, Jim, since according to Paul you’ve started a church online, maybe you should start charging money to let people comment, after all, even cyber church leaders have to make a living too, don’t you think?

I think you should start with Paul – if he wants to post on your “church” blog, I would charge him ten bucks each time. hehe

ok…..I’m done. signing snarking off, Juli 

Since your latest attack was aimed at me, it’s posted on the blog. Thank you for keeping my guests out of it. As long as you continue to attack, or dialog or whatever directly with me, I’ll let your posts through.

You know, kind of like I’ve told you 10 times via email.

I just called you. I’ll be at my desk for a couple of hours-please give me a call.

you actually reiterated John’s question #1 to you when you wrote in your comment above which shows me you are at least paying attention:
1) So, this begs the questions: Why?  Why accuse a blog owner of trying to fabricate posts?

You got the question right, but you still answered it by defending yourself and why YOU didn’t write the post in the first place, as you continue to claim. You can’t seem to move past this point.

Here’s the thing Paul, I think you are the only one here who assumed that post was written in an anti-CJ or anti-SGM perspective…it wasn’t really damaging to you even if it WAS fabricated by John, which it clearly wasn’t.

This begs the question: Are you back stepping because you feared it would be received as being anti-CJ? Because I certainly didn’t see it that way..you going on an on defending your support for CJ and SGM is clear, why you assumed the origianl comment in question somehow detracted from this, I don’t know. So it seems your defense of yourself is in fact not needed as we all know your stance.

So the questions remains: why would JOHN fabricate comments as a blog host? You didn’t answer that one still.

The third question: #3)Why manufacture offence by claiming censorship when very little if anything gets edited off this blog?  you responded with this as your answer:
I am not claiming censorship on this site.

I’d like to point out that you have claimed fabrication of comments on this site by John (which is worse in my opinion than censorship) and your “not-so Stepford wife” has claimed John has censored comments on this site, on numerous occasions. Since you may not be aware of what your free-thinking wife has had to say on this site, let me enlighten you as to just some of her comments where she clearly accuses John of censorship:

ME LOVE YOU LONG TIME on May 13th, 2009 11:40 am on the Reform or Not to Reform comments
Well…good morning Vietnam!
I was banned from posting on the site for a long time so all the while you guys were able to ramp it all up and name call without any availability to respond, which I am sure your blog masters loved.

and again here:

ME LOVE YOU LONG TIME on May 6th, 2009 1:25 pm

NOT FOR NOTHIN, BUT I POSTED A RANT HERE LAST NIGHT AND IT NEVER MADE IT. SO THIS IS AN “OPEN MINDED” “CHRISTIAN” FORUM? GUESS NOT ON MANY FRONTS. IT LOOKS LIKE, AT LEAST TO ME, IF YOU ARE NOT PART OF THIS CO DEPENDENT GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO JUST CAN NOT GET ON WITH LIFE , YOU DON’T MAKE THE BLOGMASTERS LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE. YOUR OPINION GETS SRATCHED.

and here:

ME LOVE YOU FOR LONG TIME on May 13th, 2009 6:08 pm

left a rant this morning….hmm still is not here?

and yet again here:

ME LOVE YOU LONG TIME on May 13th, 2009 11:40 am

Well…good morning Vietnam!
I was banned from posting on the site for a long time so all the while you guys were able to ramp it all up and name call without any availability to respond, which I am sure your blog masters loved. I was in total shock when I responded with the” Who says I am a part of an SGM church” comment that it made it. Had to laugh. was the first post your blogmaster allowed to get through. Guess they only choose what they want you to hear. I have many posted that did not make it back in the blogmasters lambs book of life. You are being controled guys. Lets see if this makes it in.

So you see Paul, your constant accusations of SGM Refuge and Jim being some sort of cult leader over there and censoring your comments, and your wife railing against John here, clearly you are not speaking the truth when you write:

“I am not claiming censorship on this site.”

No, you claimed John actually fabricated your comments, and claimed censorship at the Refuge by Jim and your wife claims John censored her here…don’t try to weasel out of the obvious. You don’t think John Immel is a nice man..so be it. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. But you are still railing against him for something he HAS given you an answer for.

We get it. You think: CJ, good – John Immel, bad.

you made that point clearly..and made some points here for those on the Refuge as well…and yes, John has graciously allowed that up to this point. 

Yeah, I see why he’s “so bad”  because he allows you to piss on his floor because you left Jim’s house before you could finish relieving yourself there.

Paul…<shaking head> you said you were glad there were some here who were moving on.

why don’t you do the same yourself?

Collateral Damage
May 4th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Paul, You and I know each other. We have for a long time. My family and I used to go to Metro, and now we a part of another SGC in Florida. The SGM we all fell in love with, and wanted to serve and give our lives to no longer exists. It is dead. No longer should we defend and protect an organization (or the men that run it), but give our lives to our Lord and His service. SGM is not “the church of people” you say this site (and others like it) are slandering. The people of SGCs need help. They need leaders who are interested in caring for them, and not THE ORGANIZATION first. The leadership (and most pastors) of SGM will do whatever it takes to protect and defend SGM, AT ANY COST. The cost of peoples’ lives, marriages, relationships, etc., are expendible to the greater good of THE ORGANIZATION. SGM is their god in too many “apostles” eyes, and not our Lord Jesus. I know this from personal experience. My name on here is what me and my family have been characterized as by SGM. Please stop and think about who you serve. I thought for a long time my family and I were serving God first, but it wasn’t that way at all. SGM was an idol to me and idols don’t like it when people try to expose them. They rear their ugly little heads and fight to stay an idol.

Famagusta
May 4th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Paul, we know each other from our church. I know you as much more bold and intelligent than your posts, which I have been reading now since they started (following this site for a while, as do others you know), sounded. Don’t choose the easy way and just accuse everyone here of “slandering”. There is A LOT more to it, and if you’re honest, you know it.
I have laughed about other SGM defenders here who don’t have anything better to say, because they they don’t ask the hard questions. ABout you, I don’t laugh. I know you could do better. Sorry bro, but this is embarassing.

I think you are confusing “gossip and slander” with very real concerns for the way the SGM organization does it’s business.  There are those within the SGM system that are as concerned, if not more so, than those of us who have felt the effects of SGM’s unorthodox, hyper-authoritarian leadership style. 

The thing is, Paul, those of us who are speaking out and confronting unbiblical teachings and behaviors in SGM leaders are doing it for the benefit of SGM and it’s members.  The scrutiny that has been placed on SGM leaders by the blogs has brought some needed change to the organization…  they still have a ways to go, but you (and other SGM members) are the beneficiaries of these “SGM-business-as-usual” problems that have been exposed through the blogs.

So, you’re welcome! 

Oh yeah…  I didn’t appreciate this comment from you AT ALL!!!
“at our age – speedy recovery is like speedy typing skills – only in our mnids and filled wiht tpyos”

What do you mean by “at our age”?????  I still feel like a 20 year old….  Hahahahahaha!!!    Just kidding…  I DO hope and pray your recuperation time is limited to that of a 20 year old…  like me… 

Well done, well said! 

That had better be an innocent mis-spelling…