Musing in my Underoos

21 Responses to “Musing in my Underoos”

1. Steve on July 30th, 2008 9:51 pm

   The comments that Eric said were also discussed on the following blog:

   http://www.sgmsurvivors.com

   You might find what they said interesting.

   Steve

2. John Immel on July 30th, 2008 9:57 pm

   Yeah… see what happens when you come late to the party? Heheheh…

3. Dan on July 31st, 2008 8:04 am

   Well, having a mental picture of you in your Underoos is disturbing to me…

   I saved all the Little Sisters…and I got the good ending…

   My comment regarding Mr. Simmons comments is…wait –he really doesn’t want me to think for myself. So does this mean I don’t have the capacity to discern truth from heresay? Okay Mr. Simmons, just tell me what to think and do.

4. John Immel on July 31st, 2008 11:14 am

   But my underoos are phenomenal! don’t be disturbed…hhehheheeh

   As for Mr. Eric Phenomenal Simmons… The implications of his comments are exactly why you said Dan… he doesn’t really believe that folk can figure it out on their own.

   By assumption SGM believes they are uniquely qualified to tell you what is truth and authority and fact.

5. Dan on July 31st, 2008 12:25 pm

   If a person’s “truth” is so fragile that a harmless blog entry can shatter it…I would question their belief in their “truth” in the first place. Of course, on the other hand, words can be a powerful thing, but then again, is it so wrong to want to question authority (respectfully)and gain more understanding (he asks rhetorically)?

   Of course I could resort to my old standy and say: there is no such thing as absolute truth, but that’s a discussion for another day…

6. Ellie on July 31st, 2008 2:55 pm

   I can hear Johann Eck’s sermons of old: “I’m also concerned because at this point in time, we are at the pinnacle of the Information Age. For those of Thee who can read, thou are’t now able to find tons of information on any subject thou wants. Does’t thou realize that the printing press allows thee to be one page away from the Reformed heresies?

   lolol! You’re so silly…

   

7. keepinstep on July 31st, 2008 3:47 pm

   John, your interest in, and knowledge of, history makes you dangerous in another way to SGM. It used to be that PDI’s knowledge of history ended with the writing of the NT epistles, and picked up somewhere around the Great Awakening. (There was no teaching on the great heresies that the Church refuted with the Fathers’ writings, the various Councils and Creeds.)

   Now, SGM’s historical knowledge ends at The Cross, and doesn’t begin again until the Reformation. Then it stops again at Spurgeon, with a highly eclectic cherry-picking of post-Spurgeon authors.

   SGM people aren’t encouraged to read any Church history, aren’t encouraged to find their place in the great invisible Church that spans the millenia, and certainly aren’t encouraged to test their own doctrines and practices against either Scripture or 2,000 years of invaluable Church history and experience.

   This ignorance is one more thing SGM pastors rely upon, to keep the sheep from asking questions and overturning money tables.

8. John Immel on July 31st, 2008 10:08 pm

   Keepinstep… no wonder they got rid of you. You know too much… way too much relevant history … and you’re a thinker. I’m surprised you lasted as long as you did. >snort<

   Keepinstep said: “John, your interest in, and knowledge of, history makes you dangerous in another way to SGM. It used to be that PDI’s knowledge of history ended with the writing of the NT epistles, and picked up somewhere around the Great Awakening. (There was no teaching on the great heresies that the Church refuted with the Fathers’ writings, the various Councils and Creeds.)”

   What is truly ironic … it was never my intention to be dangerous to them. I eventually learned that they found me a threat because of the things you identified. The true tragedy was I was one of their greatest fans. Some parts of the then PDI/CLC wisdom and practice was (maybe still is) profound effective ways to walk out this life of salvation.

   But while I certainly set out to learn from them, I don’t think it ever occurred to them to learn from me. I was disqualified in sooo many ways—the ever abounding ad hominem, failures of “gifting”, failures of service, failures of submission, and the rest of the litany they use to dismiss voices they don’t care to listen to—that the content of my intellectual observations didn’t pass the so what test.

   I was a snot nosed 20 something sitting around in my underwear. What could this kid possibly know?

   The despicable nature of their practice is to hide their stunning historical and theological ignorance behind the bulwark of their authoritarian practices. While at the same time insisting they have found the only intellectual and theological game in town called “Sound Doctrine”: aka Reformed Theology. They are the ones who equate intellectual apprehension with the pursuit of theology which is ultimately the pursuit of God. Therefore, the weight of their ideas must be sufficient to the task of persuasion. If they cannot, then it begs the question weather they have Sound Doctrine.

   What is truly hysterical is that had they stayed intellectual charismatic’s on some level they would have sustained the “moral” authority to say this is our bus we can drive it where we want. But the moment they validated their right to preach because the orthodox tradition of history, they entered the arena of ideas. And they can’t compete.

   Why do you think that Mr. Eric Phenomenal Simmon’s is worried about folk being one click away from heresies? He knows that he has no ability to teach folk the intellectual rigor to arrive at the right answer. So what does he teach? He teaches fear. Fear the boogie man of Bad Ideas. Fear your own ignorance. Fear you’re your own perceptions. Fear your inclinations. Fear that we (the leaders of SGM) are the only thing standing between you and endless moral and spiritual failing. Fear that we are the only thing standing between you and a Wrathful God that opposes you in your pride. FEAR!

   For all of their posturing on the Cross, this is their real doctrine. Fear perpetuated by ignorance. And it is a lesson that people learn very well.

   Keepinstep… you are sooo very right… “This ignorance is one more thing SGM pastors rely upon, to keep the sheep from asking questions and overturning money tables.”

   So dear silent reader… Wisdom cries out in the street: “Hey Stupid! How long are you going to be stupid?” And wisdom further revealed: “God has NOT given you a spirit of fear, but of Love, Power, and a Sound Mind.”

   Uh… there are some money tables waiting…

9. keepinstep on August 1st, 2008 2:12 pm

   Speaking of overturning money tables, here’s a refreshing post from a guy in Oz:

   http://preview.tinyurl.com/6oztdw

10. John on August 5th, 2008 10:00 pm

    Keepinstep… this was funny.

    Sue Charlton: Mick, give him you wallet.
    Michael J. “Crocodile” Dundee:What for?
    Sue Charlton: He’s got a Church.

    The blind, the poor, the oppressed, the captives, are being threatened with something called church - do a Mick Dundee….

    if you all haven’t check out the url go take a look. Its fun and refreshing.

11. keepinstep on August 8th, 2008 10:11 am

    John, you wrote:
    “The true tragedy was I was one of their greatest fans. Some parts of the then PDI/CLC wisdom and practice was (maybe still is) profound effective ways to walk out this life of salvation.

    “But while I certainly set out to learn from them, I don’t think it ever occurred to them to learn from me.”

    I agree completely with both statements.

12. Steve on August 8th, 2008 10:59 am

    I listened to the message and have a few comments.

    I did find the comment trying to discredit most bloggers sad and humorous. I am older than the age he said and might be blogging from my basement but no my mom’s basement. I left home quite a while ago.

    Early in the message Eric Simmons expressed concern over people’s limited knowledge of Scripture in this day and age. Simmons indicated that the knowledge was less now than for any generation since the invention of the printing press. I found this funny to hear; it was almost the “pot calling the kettle black.”

    Here is Eric Simmons who is part of Sovereign Grace Ministries whose leader C.J. Mahaney is known for his reading of books but not his study of Scripture. The emphasis from what I have heard and saw when I attended CLC was for members to read books and not study the bible.

    It was pointed out a little while back on the sgmsurvivors.com blog that SGM doesn’t allow bible studies unless they are lead by a pastor due to leaderships concerns that whoever teaches this might teach what they consider false.

    Thus I find it surprising that someone from this type of church culture would make a remark like this. If he has this concern, why not work to change the culture in his group? It is great to express this concern but shocking in light of what SGM emphasizes.

13. John Immel on August 8th, 2008 10:37 pm

    Steve, that is funny…you blog in your basement. I to am a bit older than 24, but I don’t have a basement … I do have a mother… She’s phenomenal. And I’ll let you all envision how I’m dressed when I blog.

    >snicker<

    I do soooo love irony. SGM leaders fussed because folk don’t know the bible. Are you joking? SGM leaders are so paranoid that someone will read it wrong they do about everything they can to make sure folk don’t read it at all without direct supervision.

    I don’t think I’ve read when you were there Steve, but for my tenure, 91ish to 96ish for most Sundays it was Theological discussions featuring CJ’s handouts with his little check marks. Followers emulate what their leaders do… if folk don’t know scripture (shrug) Like you, I’m thinking the problem is closer to home.

14. Steve240 on August 9th, 2008 12:00 am

    I was at CLC in the early 90’s. Most sundays Mahaney would exhort and do very little teaching from scripture. He might start the “exhortation” off by reading a passage of the scripture but didn’t build and quote scripture throughout his talks as a general rule.

    As we are both saying, you don’t like what the sheep do, maybe you don’t like the example you are setting they are follwoing.

15. Steve240 on September 23rd, 2008 12:11 pm

    One late thought I have on this message given.  Eric seems to be critical of an adult male still living at home he says “24-year-old guys living in their moms’ basement.” 

    Isn’t this the same church where they promote adult children living with their parents and being under the parents’ “authority” until they get married?  If so, why he using this as a way to discredit bloggers that are supposedly in this situation? 

    Is this another case of where a leader at SGM says they think one way but their actions such as this show they believe something else? 
    

16. John Immel on September 23rd, 2008 1:42 pm

    Steve… that is awsome!!!!   This is me laughing a LOT!

17. Butterfly on September 23rd, 2008 8:38 pm

    Steve,

    Sadly, I think from the circle I was in that they think women not men should stay at home under “authority” until they are married and then be under “husbands” authority.  After all, this makes the possibility of them staying submissive and under control once married. It is best that women don’t go to college and don’t learn to think for themselves or make decisions on their own. What I like best about this strategy is that if they are ever widowed it can be that much more overwhelming and difficult to manage having never been on their own.  Good night my Lords…BFly

18. Protestant Knight on September 26th, 2008 6:11 pm

    I’m 40, and I blog in my Yodaroos with my lightsaber mouse and hamster running around on my desk while I eat Ramen and read Chick tracts while sipping Yoo-Hoo and wearing Bullwinkle slippers.

    Honestly.

    Simmons heard this on liberal talk radio and is trying to repackage it by bringing an observation by bringing the Gospel into it and make it God Glorifying  by… wait, it’s NONE of that.
    …pk

19. Butterfly on September 26th, 2008 7:42 pm

    PK,

    The bullwinkle slippers are a perfect touch!

    I find it interesting that church members are suppossed to take Eric’s word and just beleive that all the blogs are written by heretics and all that SGM states is perfected doctrine that is more holy than that of any other church. What is interesting is that as Christians we are to weigh all we hear by the Word of God - including what we hear at church. But they have everyone in a state of awe that makes them think they should just believe everything they hear because of the pure doctrine “claim” they hold. Jesus was considered a heretic when on this earth and he didn’t have any bullwinkle slippers and he was Truth. In those days I am sure there were people that just beleived what the Pharisees said in an effort to be holy and obedient and as a result didn’t show up for Jesus’ teachings and missed the chance to see God.

20. Steve240 on September 27th, 2008 11:25 am

    Butterfly:

    Sadly, I think from the circle I was in that they think women not men should stay at home under “authority” until they are married and then be under “husbands” authority.

    Well if that is the case, I guess Eric Simmons isn’t as contradictory since he said the bloggers were male and not female.  I am sure he would found another way to discredit the female bloggers unless they are writing on feminine topic.

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