Poster Anonymous has identified herself as a member of the Tomczak family in comments on Women and Children First. I am going to accept that premise. Their actual identity is irrelevant. What is relevant are the themes underlying Anonymous’ comments: they speak volumes to the ongoing tide of Mystic Despotism within American Christianity. I have touched on many of these themes throughout articles on www.SpiritualTyranny.com. These comments present me with another teachable moment.
Here are the two comments in order of post:
To whoever writes these articles… I am a member of Larry Tomczak’s family and we left a long time ago from SGM. We were the pioneers of leaving SGM. Please post something that is correct. No offense but it makes me sad that you have to post things that are not any longer true. I would also like you to respect everyone even if they are wrong. C.J. did hurt our family very badly but we have forgiven him and gone on with our lives! SGM, yes, indeed is not a good place for everyone but yet there is much healing that has come about when it comes to all the people who have left. I happen to be a poster for SGM survivors and we have been in contact with the heads of the group. They are great people.
To this I have to say Che and Larry haven’t been connected with SGM in over 10 years. Please be respectful even to people who don’t agree with you. Using the word for male anatomy is not a good turn of phrase. All I ask is respect is due everyone. No, I do not like C.J. but I respect him as a man!
You post the following: “Larry Tomczak, where the Hell are you in all your Apostolic Glory? Che Ahn, where are you in all your submission and authority magnificence?”
* * *
One more thought… you post that Larry turned a blind eye… in fact I saw him work tirelessly to change SGM’s abusive power but was unsuccessful. He cried and wept bitter tears over this whole debacle. He has counseled others that have left as well. If you are interested in hearing about this, please feel free to post something here and I would be willing to get in touch with you to discuss it.
Also, please go on Larry’s Facebook page to get in contact with him. We never left those who needed healing from SGM. In fact, many have contacted us. So, please, do not think that Larry or Che just up and left. They have thriving churches who have helped heal these wounds. You are not alone in your anger, but please, I would request that you do it respectfully! Again, I do not like the leaders in SGM but I respect them as men who are albeit a bit confused!
* * *
Since I am empathetic, I can understand why you are saddened by what you read. You are in emotional solidarity with a family member: you love Larry. I would do the same.
You glance through a diatribe that does not square with your definition of respect or accurate. You are confident in your own sincerity: both in your actions now and Larry’s actions over the last ten years. You have a hard time wrapping your mind around where my commentary is coming from. You caught an inkling of my point because you commented “… so please do not think that Larry or Che just up and left,” but you didn’t stop to digest the source of my implication. You should have paused, put aside your kneejerk reaction, and thought.
Your sincerity and emotional reaction notwithstanding, be forewarned. I am going to put a very fine point on my response.
“Please be respectful even to people who don’t agree with you.” Uh… Anonymous, this is not a playground fuss over Strawberry or Vanilla ice cream, or who is the greatest basketball player in the world: Kobe or LeBron. (Of course, it is Strawberry and LeBron. And whoever doesn’t agree with me is a punk.)
>snicker<
Let us review so we can discover a sense of proportion.
By many reports, this is no isolated incident of Pastoral insanity and horrific doctrine-driven conduct. The Noel story merely sets a new low for a prevailing trend. Noel’s little girl is molested by a 15-year-old recidivist with testicles. In a stroke of insanity, SGM leadership spends roughly a decade trivializing the boy’s (with testicles) actions and elevating Noel and Grizzly’s response to the boy’s (with testicles) gross injustice in a mad tide of moral equivalency and character assassination. According to Noel’s story as originally posted on www.sgmsurvivors.com (see link above), over time the molester with testicles is elevated to some form spiritual leader within the SGM organization.
Let us continue our review. Larry Tomczak (ostensibly with testicles) is booted from PDI circa 1995 because of lying, and pride, and blah blah blah-the usual litany of SGM disqualifiers. Or depending on who is talking, he pioneered leaving. Since that time, Larry has been stumping through the US advocating his Apostle-ness with sidekick Che Ahn (also ostensibly with testicles.) The function of this Apostle-ness is something called covering.
What is that covering? Hang on a minute… I’ll get back to that.
“We were the pioneers of leaving SGM. Please post something that is correct.” Larry Pioneered leaving SGM?
pi·o·neer (p -nîr ) n.
1.One who ventures into unknown or unclaimed territory.
2. One who opens up new areas of thought, research, or development.
3. A soldier who performs construction and demolition work in the field to facilitate troop movements.
1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of early settlers.
2. Leading the way; trailblazing:
a. To open up (an area) or prepare a way
b. To settle (a region).
Really? This is the credit he’s giving himself? Or is this the loving mythology bestowed by a family member? By definition, that would mean Larry left first but here is “something correct.” As a member of the family, I can understand why Charles Schmitt doesn’t even get an honorable mention. But if leaving is the definition, Charles pioneered an exit from CLC/PDI (or whatever other acronym they call themselvesy) by 1982. Math is hard but that is over a decade BEFORE Larry followed.
Here is something else correct: Che Ahn pioneered an exit before Larry followed. These two pioneering examples leap to my mind. I am confident some SGM historians could easily offer a list of others that pioneered an exit from PDI/CLC/SGM long before Larry followed.
And this all presumes that Larry would have followed if he were allowed to persist in his comfy submission to authority office. Are you honestly going to advocate that Larry was planning an exit when he got called to the carpet for lying? The fact that Larry had been mothballed by El Primo Doctrinal Mover and Shaker for four months (with no end in sight) had nothing to do with Larry’s decision to remove himself?
I get that SGM wanted something from Larry and their punitive actions were a little more than extortion. What was the price of staying? Shaving his head? Sharing his M&Ms? Declaring fealty to the great Reformer of Geneva?
I’ll not mince words. The cultural methodology that bit Larry in the backside is the same cultural methodology that had been employed on our previous two pioneers, and a host of others who did not have the national reputation or local following to sustain them after getting the boot. The grand symbolic reconciliation with Charles and Che Ahn came because someone figured out they had been wrong in method and practice. I’m a little fuzzy, but whose method had suddenly changed?
Had SGM central not been driven to infect EVERYONE with their “Doctrinal Refocus,” what exactly would have motivated Larry to pioneer an exit?
You and I both know that Larry couldn’t care less about the “Doctrinal Refocus” as his booklet What do You Believe abundantly illustrates. Here is something else correct: that booklet shows virtually no mastery of the historic doctrines or their subsequent outworking. He didn’t even master the KNOWN territory so how can he claim scouting out unknown territory: definitely no pioneering there.
Which leads nicely to this next point: Pioneering is not merely about chronology. Pioneering, by definition, is creating a trail for others to follow.
So, Anonymous, what is the trail? What is the path exactly?
Did Larry Tomczak lay out a path for Noel and Grizzly (or anyone) for that matter, to actually leave SGM? Where has Larry Tomczak provided the information on how to respond to the tyranny? Where has Larry Tomczak specifically illustrated how to overcome the doctrine/teachings that bind people’s souls? Where are the tools to help refugees and survivors identify the source of their fears? Where is Larry Tomczak’s provision for clear moral clarity for resisting oppression? Where is his participation in the ongoing conversation on sundry blogs concerning SGM insanity?
Did he leap to the defense of Noel’s daughter and help them navigate the onslaught of moral relativism and pastoral council bankruptcy? That whole debacle was happening over the last ten years: Uh… the same ten years that you saw Larry crying and not being associated with the ministry.
This pioneering effort is displayed for all to see, for all to hear? Where is it exactly? A Facebook page?
“We never left those who needed healing from SGM. In fact, many have contacted us. So please do not think that Larry or Che just up and left. They have thriving churches who have helped heal these wounds.” This makes me scratch my head. What church doesn’t try to help the hurting? Why is that specifically unique? There are scads of churches receiving SGM casualties. I talked too many hand wringing, bromide touting, presiding over the flock. Churches “thriving” because the pew sitters are pounded into the seats with an endless: “Make sure you are here on Sunday sinner. Pay your tithes you God robber and submit, submit, submit!”
Hey, here is an idea: the goal is not to heal the wounded. The goal is to END THE WOUNDING!!!!!!
Dare I point out that everything listed above can be found here? Dare I point out that I was one of the first to openly, publicly, formally write a criticism of the PDI/CLC/SGM doctrine and practice? Ask your family member. He knows it’s true. He got a copy of my first book. That book sparked a dozen or so conversations between Larry and me over about 18 months. Those conversations created the introduction to Charles Schmitt and a dozen other leaders’ (ostensibly with testicles) where I sat agape while they detailed their own stories of spiritual tyranny perpetrated at the hands of PDI/CLC thugs, but no, they were not really interested in getting involved. They didn’t feel “called,” to any specific outward action. These same ‘men’ pound the pulpit with regularity portraying themselves as champions of Spiritual fortitude. Their purpose as a pastor is to be a defender of the weak; they are a spiritual: “Covering.”
What a bunch of gutless frauds.
How about giving credit for real pioneering work? Kris and Guy at www.sgmsurvivors.com are pioneers for creating the first public forum where people could begin to realize they are not crazy; where people could begin to see that their treatment was no isolated incident as SGM is always inclined to portray conflict with their vaunted leadership. Or, how about Jim over at www.SGMrefuge.com who has spent the better part of two years OPENLY detailing the SGM injustice and mistreatment: a man who has OPENLY reached out to a number of other denominational leaders in an effort to galvanize people towards bringing this path of destruction to a close?
That is pioneering work.
And I am not done pioneering my response.
“All I ask is respect is due everyone. No, I do not like C.J. but I respect him as a man!” This … makes no sense. So you respect CJ? Really? Then why have you left?
re·spect
1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
2. To avoid violation of or interference with.
3. To relate or refer to; concern.
n.
1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem.
2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.
To respect the man necessitates that you respect the sum of his actions. Seeking to parse a distinction is to offer a truly meaningless division. If the encompassing relational standard is respect, how do you decide where to draw the line on deference? Evidently, you don’t respect him enough to remain submitted to his considered judgments. So, by definition, you dis-respected CJ when you left.
And this is at the core of the whole SGM fraud. Everyone seems endlessly preoccupied about showing these men deference but absolutely vacant in evaluating the content of SGM’s actions driven by their specific doctrine. In a bizarre, insane double standard, these thugs can pound the pulpit qualifying their authority by their unique great character – the accumulated good of their actions – and in the next breath absolve themselves of any bad outcome of those actions: “because all churches have their problems, and we are all just sinners.”
And no one wants to offend them by pointing out the insanity???!!!! People will bend over backward, make ridiculous distinctions, all in a vain effort to maintain some fictional sense of propriety. This is insane. This is absolutely morally, intellectually bankrupt.
Somehow the level of disaster is not sinking in. Let me reiterate the report that sparked the original article Women and Children First. Noel says that a boy, with testicles, molested her daughter (and potentially more little girls). Over time SGM elevated that boy with testicles to a leadership position. CJ has touted fealty to the charismatic papacy that is SGM. CJ sits as vicar over the Holy Sea, standing in the stead of God. The buckaroo stops with CJ and thereby, he cannot pass off the responsibility of TEN years of pastoral psychosis. What in that equation is respect-worthy? What in that equation qualifies for deference? At what point should we feel appreciative? What there is honorable, or esteem-worthy?
By definition, respect is a subjective expression towards something of value. So what someone gives respect reflects their sense of values.
Respect is NOT due everyone. Respect is not an entitlement. Respect is not a content independent bestowal. Men do not have an ethical requirement to embrace all people, in all action, equally. What you are advocating is nothing more than thinly veiled moral relativism. I will never value tyranny. I will never value bondage or oppression perpetrated in the name of God or righteousness. I will never respect tyrants!
If that is what you value, then you have found one man with testicles who rejects your value.
Nothing spiritual exists in clement, patient, handwringing, and obsequies speaking. SGM’s actions are despicable. For far too long, national leaders have treated SGM method and practice like a polite secret: like the inner wrangling of wayward children against a strict father. They are far too eager to close an already blind eye to the tyranny. How SGM burns through people’s lives is available for anyone to see who will actually look. And in Larry’s case, he LIVED it.
We are so infected with Leaven that we are like the Pharisees able to look at the sky and understand rain is coming but utterly incapable of seeing what the response should be. We are so preoccupied with some ill-conceived effort at methodological precision that we making the very failures of Jesus’ warning: “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees.” And the result is a stunning impotence in moral clarity and an utter inability to resist tyranny. Remind your family member of that sentence. He heard that entire discussion from me almost a decade ago as I drove him around Georgetown.
“One more thought… you post that Larry turned a blind eye… in fact I saw him work tirelessly to change SGM’s abusive power but was unsuccessful. He cried and wept bitter tears over this whole debacle.” Okay… I’m empathetic to the pain. The onslaught and personal assassination that comes with having a conflict with SGM is a brutal path to walk. And what is more, he should have cried (past tense) for stunning tyranny is being perpetrated in an organization that ostensibly bears his name and authority. But this at no point absolves him of the subsequent ten years of comparative silence.
Here is the focus of my original article Women and Children First. Larry has been stumping through the US, since his ouster, claiming Apostolic authority and advocating that correct church government requires that Pastors and Evangelists, and Teacher, Prophets, and pew-sitters must come offer their gifts and callings to apostolic central planning. This is in exchange for the vaunted ‘covering.’
Okay, so where is the covering? Or maybe a better question: What is covering?
PDI was his brainchild. He called himself Apostle and demanded submission to his authority-ness. He used that authority to remove, at minimum, the pioneers mentioned above. Where is the other side of this vaunted social contract? How does an apostle earn his keep? Covering? What bad things is he shielding people from? What does he safeguard? The prophesy mic? Keep demons from attacking? How utterly trivial. How ridiculously subjective.
What could an apostle actually do that is worthwhile? How about defending the women and children being run over by SGM doctrine and practice? And let us not leave out the men who have been sucked down the path to sacrifice their wives to Pastoral affirmations. Those little boys need protection from their weak minds.
The fact that he pioneered an exit or got kicked out is irrelevant. Larry started the mess: the tyranny that was PDI and is now SGM. He started that group and called himself apostle over that group. At the very least, he called himself a leader and demanded submission. People gave their submission in exchange for covering. So he got kicked out? So what? How does that mitigate his responsibility to his self-proclaimed social contract?
The very Pauline writings that Larry stacks up like so many Legos for the submit, submit, submit part are the same writings where Paul kicked some serious ass when churches he’d founded started trotting off the theological and methodological deep end. It didn’t matter that the churches didn’t want Paul around, or that he had been defamed in the minds of the local church. Paul refused to remain silent. He got out his trusty pen and waged relentless persuasive warfare against what he considered error. Paul had the onions to stand against those with whom he unequivocally disagreed. He was not shy. He took his argument public and would not back down. If Paul is your measure, then-IF-apostolic covering is anything, it is at least a pair of… testicles.
So, where is he in all his Apostolic covering glory? I guess this comment answers my question: “To this I have to say Che and Larry haven’t been connected with SGM in over 10 years.”
The problem is his ABSENCE.
“They are great people.” Well, you and I are quantifying greatness different. To my mind, Great Men identify objectives and achieve outcomes. Great Men don’t quit! Great Men work in the light of day to realize goals. Great Men speak openly of their ideas. Great Men galvanize others to effective moral and philosophical clarity. Great Men defend the weak. Great Men resist the tyranny of Mystic Despotism with every fiber of their being.
There is no middle to mediate. I am stunned at how often people try to play at being the broadminded, holier-than-thou, can’t we just all get along, kumbaya, kumbaya hippy peace retreads. I marvel at the effort to balance despotism with trivialities. I stand slack-jawed at the displayed sense of proportion. I am in awe at someone being more fussed about the word testicles than the utter bankruptcy of SGM leadership’s actions.
The moral equivalency deeply embedded in pervasive depravity has made all sin disqualifying, and thereby everyone is culpable but no one responsible. The smallest trivialities are as great a sin as the most destructive slaughter. This mindset has so pervaded the whole of Christianity that we are not salt and light but rather a bunch of soulless nattering nannies fussed over what someone does with body parts. We say morality and mean “Don’t cuss, smoke or chew or have sex with those who do.” We think it an extraordinary moral stand to put on our Puritan hats and boycott movies that mention testicles. We get agitated when someone is blunt, but conciliatory when tyrants advocate all manner of despotism. We can stab each other in the eye as long as we smile and heaven forefend the victim complain about ill treatment with any passion.
If this repugnant trivialization doesn’t illustrate my point, I don’t know what will: “I respect them as men who are albeit a bit confused!” The sum of the SGM problem is a little bit of confusion?
Un-freaking-believable!!!
Anonymous, get a clue, a sense of proportion, and a spine; and you must respect me for not agreeing with you. I’m a pioneer who cries; and I respect you as a person, but don’t like what you say, even when I didn’t say testicles.
***
Related Articles: Blog Apostle
158 comments
John
February 28, 2010 at 2:22 pm John(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
To all commenters… for whatever reason, my little comment box is not recognizing single spaces between paragraphs. Put an extra space to get separation. In the meantime, I will work on getting this silly widget to work right.
Sopwith
February 28, 2010 at 8:31 pm Sopwith(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
A Fractured Fairy Tale: “Just A Friendly Old SGM Troll”.
HowDee, Ya’All,
I too, would rather like to hear the re-telling of: Just A Friendly Old SGM Troll, –Remember dat upside-down fractured fairy tale that juxtaposes the traditional tale of Three Billy Goats Gruff, –goats that outwit a menacing troll who lives under a bridge, with a retell’in in which the venerable ole troll is a discarded SGM super-pastor that relates his side of the story…
I am soooooo glad I ain’t the gingerbread man…
O’ right…dats another story… he he
In a little,
Sopy
DB
March 2, 2010 at 8:40 am DB(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
You actually said everything that was on my mind with respect to this subject.
Considering all the abuse that has gone on in the churches Larry T. helped to create, pondering the absence of gonads shouldn’t be the focus of anyone’s offense.
John Immel
March 2, 2010 at 12:16 pm John Immel(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
DB… good to hear from you. And very well said. You said in a sentence what it took me 3,500 words to say.
musicman
March 7, 2010 at 12:41 am musicman(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
John-
Amen and YES…if Larry cared so much where the heck has been all these years? If he really thinks Kris and Guy have done such a great job than why are they letting Kris and Guy carry the torch…did they help start PDI/SGM? Did they decide to give CJ an Apostolic platform for his preaching?
Larry-if you care so much, than speak man-how can you remain silent for all these years and truly say that you understand and that you care?
Heather
March 20, 2010 at 11:34 pm Heather(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I am a little confused. I am legitimately asking for an answer, and I don’t have a sarcastic or malicious tone in my typing in the least. With that being prefaced:
1) What exactly are you holding Larry Tomczak and Che Ahn resonsible for? How exactly are they at fault for PDI/SGM today, and what would you have them do about it tonight?
It would seem that, and perhaps I am just misunderstanding, but it would seem as if you are holding the same legalistic standard over those two the way we all are disgusted at how SGM does their members.
I don’t quite understand how you chose those 2 men, considering they have had nothing to do with that ministry in at least a decade, probably 2 decades for Che.
How can they be held responsible for the current problems within SGM? I am legitimately asking. I am not understanding your Biblical train of thought on that.
I highly doubt that on “Judgement Day” Jesus will hold these men acocuntable for whatever is happening there, or for whatever HAS happened there.
Man, I am soooooo glad that I serve a God who doesn’t hold my past failures, my past immaturities, my past mistakes, my past anything against me. And only HE knows the depth of my repentance.
I would also just submit that it is a very slippery slope to accuse people, and place blame with judgement on someone in general, let alone people I doubt you know personally.
What is frustrating with sites like this is, it continues to perpetuate a cyle of division, rather than a spirit unity or reconcilliation. Do you pray for these men, or just air what you perceive to be their sins to the public? There is a way to “teach” the body about correct Biblical application within church leadership, but as a believer I was quite saddened at your negative approach.
It would seem to me that those of us who have “seen the light” so to speak, would be provoked out of love, not what comes off as bitterness. Again, maybe I am misunderstanding you. I hope I am.
The bottom line is Christ died for ALL of us. He desires CJ, Larry, Che, me, you, the bum on the corner, etc. Regardless of whatever we have all done, the Lord is always at work and HE alone knows our hearts. Larry & Che are STILL Jesus’ beloved. Thet are STILL grafted in. They are STILL your brother’s in Christ.
I would encourage all of us to be careful at how quickly we bash public ministers. I will bring to rememberance that it was false accusations and “public bashing” that aided to Christ’s crucifixion, yet He was without sin. (I am in NO way comparing Larry or Che to Christ, but simply using that as an example of how wrong it is to just jump on the ”word of mouth” band wagon.) Rarely do we ever know the full story anyway.
There is a difference between holding one another accountable within the global Body, and picking apart one another in the global Body. If you have a problem with Larry or Che, maybe you should write to them. Hey, it’s scriptual! I think you’d be surprised at their response to you.
I would love to see these Christian versions of “The National Inquirer” stop, and a little more Christ like behavior shown.
I can’t imagine Jesus is pleased with some of the comments.
I can bet no one would talk this way about their friend’s, yet it’s okay to do so when someone is “just a figure” and not a person in our lives. How can that sit right with you?
I am aware that most of us, especially any “ex SGM’s”, are probably very “put off” by seemingly legalistic “corrections”…….but we ARE still held accountable to Christ AND character whether we are angry or bitter or whatever.
I think your posts could be much more effective for the Kingdom if you were to re-evaluate your approach.
John Immel
March 21, 2010 at 12:19 pm John Immel(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Heather,
Uh… ??? Hmmm…
At the moment I am struggling to know where to begin. If I wasn’t confident in my ability to write the English language, I would think my post (and the other two on this very subject) printed out in Greek or Klingon. I’m trying to figure out why you are not Groking my point. (A little Heinlein for you SF geeks)
I am going to ponder the disconnect and craft my response. While n my pensive state, I’m gonna ask for some HELP from the wonderful Spiritual Tyranny readership to weigh in on your comments. Maybe the folks not distracted by the pretty picture can address your remarks.
In the meantime, might I recommend reading: http://spiritualtyranny.com/listen/
Heather
March 21, 2010 at 7:18 pm Heather(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Okay, I have re-read your posts 4 times now to try and help this communication gap via the internet vs. in person.
I DO see where you are coming from. I see how you are flat out furious, as well as others, that NO one has seemed to blow the whistle or take responsibility for the mess that is now SGM.
And I absolutely agree, it’s my “way to go about it” that I think we slightly differ. But nontheless, I support that thought.
My thoughts are that even if Larry, or whomever, were to publicly blow the horn & admit that alot of the now used doctrine was as a result of “them” introducing it, and they want everyone to know they were way off the mark & were wrong…..I truly don’t believe it would change a single thing.
We don’t wrestle with flesh & blood, but evil forces. I personal believe wholeheartedly that SGM is such a large spiritual stronghold that needs to be broken, but I don’t think a series of public admissions from ANYone will do that. Honestly, I think SGM is so over burried in deception that those kinds of “savior like, blow the whistle men” would cause SGM’s reigns to tighten even more on their “sheep’s” contact with the outside world.
For me, I can tell you that my experience with PDI resulted in many years of getting free of rejection, and a performance mentality. It all but ruined my family. I too was sexually abused my 2 men that worked within the children’s ministry. That’s all I will comment on about that specific issue. To “up my credibility”, I was born into CLC as a pastor’s child, and remained there unitl I was almost 16. My entire life was PDI. It’s so trivial to argue who left first…my dad actually confronted leadership about the introduction of Calvinism. We left shortly after, as one of the few families without being asked to leave, without any accusations charged against mydad, and with CJ and Gary and John feeling betrayed and hurt that my dad would “leave” them. How could my dad abandon them?!
When we left, we all began a long healing process. We all had a desire to these this ministry exposed. We still do. It is unimaginable the depth of pain for my dad, and all of us. He served as a pastor there for 20 years. There was still dialogue between my dad & the leaders at the “mother ship”, but my dad personally felt that they were so unreceptive (duh) and so unable to even step back and see my dad’s point of view, that my dad actually turned to a different form of confrontation; prayer. Apparently 20 + years of “friendship” was not worth saving to “them” if my dad had the nerve to question their authority.
Me, my mom, and dad actually visited CLC about 4 years ago…..1 to confront one of molestors. 2 to actually re-establish relationships so that truth could come out. You wanna know what happened? My dad walked in, and literally flocks of people ran over to us and started crying and hugged us and missed us, etc. (My dad had somewhat maintained favor within leadership all these years, well maybe not favor perse, but we weren’t Satan’s child at that point) Once “they” saw how influential my dad still was, Gary met us at the door and told my parents if they wanted to come back, they needed to have a meeting with CJ as to whether or not we have changed our views about them, and basically if they were able to admit they were wrong in leaving in the first place. We turned around and walked out. Very hurtful. Very angering. Very unjustified. My dad is still not in ministry to this day. He is still determined to see reconciliation with those people, and the true Gospel.
My dad is Chuck Thompson. http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/733/chuckjy.jpg
(Chuck & Sandy Thompson)
I don’t want to remain anonymous…..I was bound with the fear of man for way too long. I am Heather Thompson, the oldest daughter…..well I guess I only have one sibling. Ha!
I believe that there will be a time and a place for confrontation. I believe that there is a spiritual battle at hand, and strategy is everything. Now, I have left ALOT out. It would be my parents wish and prayer in life to see these men repent and turn around. Many former pastors abroad share that same burden. There seems to be an awareness growing and a desire to “do something.” Remember, alot of us have had to go theough years of heling to even get to this place of publicly talking about. Many years of healing. A “confrontation” was almost impossible for my family due to the grip leadership still seemed to have on us……..YEARS LATER!
What may have started out as a wonderful grass roots ministry with TAG, has spiraled into an outta control doctrine. But they are so deceived! They have NO clue, they have NO grid to even understand where they are wrong. There is NO revelation to their sins, and no one other than Christ can ever reveal that. No man can make another understand their carnality if they don’t have the humility to receive correction…..so it is going to take something stronger than “us” calling “them” out. BUT- I do say go forward with charges to illegal acts, and I DO say speak the truth….I just personally think we’d have more influence if it were done in a way that gained respect & credibilty. (Though I can assure you I am most certainly not invalidating one’s feelings, trust me……I just so desire to see something rock SGM. Just “how” is key….in my little opinion.)
I think we all have an opportunity to feel validated through our experinces by sharing our stories to one another, but I can tell you right now that it will take something much greater than Larry Tomczak publicly asking forgiveness, or dedicating his life to blowing the whistle on SGM. And, really….that may not at all be the Lord’s plan for this “movement” to be exposed.
With that being said, I completely relate to the anger. I am furious that I was left out there alone for so many years. I have story upon story, as do we all. It has taken years for me & my parents to have the relationships that we now have. As I said before, being one of the original pastor’s kids, born into the “mother ship”, and raised there, I can definitelyassure you I have quite a few incidences under my belt.
What I realize is that we are all in different stages of the healing process. My origianl post was harder to articulate because of the dang typing. My point really is, we need to get the mind of Christ on how to go forward with SGM. How DO we help those still there? My point really is that I don’t find one man responsible to be Moses and bring everyone outta Egypt. I will take that role if need be. You can take that roll. We all can. BUT, there are so many scriptures on how to go about this (which I am sure I just made some of you puke a little with the thought of me actually using scripture to back this up) but regardless of the false truths, and twistings of the Word that I was raised in, I ultimately am responsible now for my growth and healing. I think we could really make an impact, and I don’t mean in a fluffy cumbuya manor, but I think we could really expose some things with the back up from the Holy Spirit. But it won’t happen with attitudes, and anger, and rage, and a motivation to humiliate and serve justive ourselves. Isn’t that kinda what we have been so vocal about be against within SGM?
With all that being said, I pray for continual healing in all of us. I still find myself struggling with stupid principles that should never have affected me. But I am not afraid. I am not ashamed. It has been a long journey for my family, but the journey is shifting and there are a lot of us who are whole, and healed, and ready to take action……with Christ, and with a strategy from Heaven. This is a spiritual battle. We won’t win without discernment.
~Heather Thompson (Bryant now)
CLC 1980-1992
FCF 1992-1995
DB
March 21, 2010 at 8:24 pm DB(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Heather,
I am so sorry for what happened to you and your family and I appreciate your heart that is toward reconcilliation, honestly, I do.
I wonder how high is the cost for some people. You were not safe within the walls of this family of churches. Whatever happened to you happened at least 18 years ago, Noel’s story is almost a decade old, there are whispers of others. Why, my heart begs, is this allowed to continue? Because, I believe, there is a culture within this org. that favors some at the expense of others. Alpha males, for example are favored at the expense of little girls.
I am in favor of holding Larry T and CA’s feet to the fire because they were partially responsible for creating this family of churches, they were alpha males for many years and sat in their esteemed and influencial positions and made names for themselves such that most of us know who the heck they are.
They are somewhat public figures and when much is given, much is also expected.
I expect these men to get the ‘nads to stand up and advocate for innocents instead of allowing their silence to cast an unwitting vote for the alpha males that have way too much power and privilege.
acme
March 21, 2010 at 8:41 pm acme(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Well said, Heather! Thank you for telling your story–and that of your parents as well. I’m so sorry you all were hurt like that.
Your family has been very important to me–although we haven’t had contact in a long time. I cleaned your grandparents’ house in Greenbelt right after college, worked on the Visitation/Hospitality team for your dad, and said “I do” when your dad officiated my wedding.
Prayer is fundamental, not supplemental–and I agree that no Moses is likely to come talk to SGM’s pharoah.
However, it is so important to be able to talk through what happened, to know that we weren’t alone and we weren’t crazy. That’s why blogs like this–and survivors–and refuge as so essential.
musicman
March 22, 2010 at 3:13 pm musicman(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Heather-
Breaks my heart to hear your story, I’m sorry and also angry that these people are blind to their lack of action. The sin of fear that they commit every day that they let, yet another tale of sexual abuse within SGM go unresolved.
Thanks for your honesty and for sharing your heart.
peace to you & your family-mm
Sandy Thompson
March 22, 2010 at 5:03 pm Sandy Thompson(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
That’s my girl!! What’s interesting is the thought that comes to me now having read her blog is that God made her to be a STRONG, INDEPENDENT WOMAN and that did not fit into the SGM grid. Severe pressure was applied to us, her parents, to “fix her”, to the point that at 6 weeks old, on a pastor’s retreat, when Heather woke up crying we were told in no uncertain terms to discipline her for her “bad attitude”! Yeah! At 6 weeks old. THAT SHOULD have been our wake up call! Oh how I wish we had not been so blind that we couldn’t see. BUT – GOD IS FAITHFUL! and HE turns all sorrow into joy and uses all of our experiences to shape us to reveal HIS SON through us. To HIM be the glory!
DB
March 22, 2010 at 8:24 pm DB(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Sandy,
God bless you for not listening to people telling you to discipline a six week old infant for crying. Thank you! Thank you! And, have you noticed that the spirited, hard to parent children oftentimes have some unique challenge later on in life for which tenacity and general strong willed qualities are actually benificial to their growth or even their very survival. My thirdborn daughter (yes, God bless strong women) was one of those whose spirit would never be broken (or her will, thank God.) She ended up a Marine that served with honor in Iraq and she *needed* to be strong for that experience.
I wish I could hug both of you but isn’t it nice to know that our kids are *normal* and *healthy* and their behaviors are (in general) normal and healthy; they aren’t wretched hopeless little sinners that need vigiliant parents that are committed to beating the sin nature right out of their backsides.
I’m so completely thrilled that Jesus took care of the little childish splinter-sins as well as my big nasty grown up plank-sins and that Hiw work was *finished* no other requirements including whatever draconian methods were recommrended against a six week old infant!
John Immel
March 23, 2010 at 12:40 am John Immel(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Heather or Mrs. Thompson, (thanks for posting BTW) … I need your help here to ferret out some things. I had it in my head that you were Anonymous… the commenter that inspired this post. But you have identified yourself as maiden name Thompson? Daughter of Chuck and Sandy.
Uhhh… from your beginning comments I gathered that you were continuing Anony’s conversation. But Anony said they were a member of the Tomczak family. Sooo… just trying to understand your proximity to this whole dealeo.
BTW: how is your father? If I have the people behind the name right, I drove Larry in D.C. to see Mr. Thompson when he had a heart attack(?) Some years ago. Assuming I have the right family … just wanna know he recovered fine.
Anyway… thanks for the details and I am still pondering my response.
Heather
March 23, 2010 at 9:33 am Heather(Quote) (Reply) (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Hey, John. Yeah, this whole internet communication deal isn’t my fave. You can’t read a person’s body language, or hear their tone, etc. That’s why I prefaced my first post with how I was wanting to come across, but even then I think it’s still hard to “get” what someone is truly trying to communicate.
I guess to simplify my opinion I could’ve said that I agree with your concept wholeheartedly (people being held accountable, etc.) I just wasn’t in favor with the way it appeared to have been gone about. That was pretty much it.
I just know that God hasn’t forgotten PDI/SGM. I believe He will continue to gather alot of us together to use us, but at the end of the day it will be to Him all the Glory & not a reflection on us “men” who have shaken SGM. I see you as someone who pioneered (cliché, I know) an opportunity for us to gather and re-connect so that maybe something can really begin to come together. I certainly don’t object to people “venting”, and working through the anger & pain together. Shoot, I thought I was overreacting and possibly even “in sin” for years after I left because I thought I was the only one. I think sites that are conducive to healing are wonderful. I was just concerned in the level of, what appeared for me to be, a level of vindictiveness that I was concerned about. I took away that you were coming across quite vengeful, and that really only hurts one’s credibility in being used in this situation. It can’t possibly help. (Though the anger is absolutely justified.)
But I know that wasn’t the direction you were meaning to go in. I see where you are trying to go. I am going to the same place. I have spent a long time trying to figure out how to get there, and I believe God is speaking to alot of us.
I just personally think it’s critical in how we go about this. I don’t believe the Lord is going to use Larry or Che to bring “peace” to SGM. I think it is beyond that. And I don’t think we can make someone (forcibly) be held accountable. We’re kind of past that stage in the level of corruption. Those men are mere branches to the main trunk, the main root of the problem. (And they too were men who were jerked around eventually by SGM, whether they were apart of the original problem to begin with or not.) I thought the avenue in which you were trying to hold Larry accountable was ineffective, and throwing salt on wounds. You may be 100% right, but the delivery (just in my opinion) was disappointing because I do believe God is bringing people forth to help deal with SGM, and I see you as one of them.
It would be very interesting if in the future alot of us could get together and have time to talk, and pray, and to share. There is a lot I would love to say, but I don’t feel “safe” sharing it for lord only knows who could be reading this……but then again this should be considered gossip so maybe no one is reading.
Yes! We are the family you are thinking of. My dad is doing great!!! Thank you for asking. Man, that was about 10 years ago! He is healthy, and looking good as always. I can’t seem to place who you are. Is there an email address on here somewhere so there is a way to communicate more personally?
And to everyone else- Thank you so much for the encouragement to me & my mom! I think this has been a monumental first for us concerning this topic. So thank you. It meant a lot. I am sure this is just the beginning of much more to come……I ain’t goin’ NO where!
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