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	<title>Comments on: Borgification of the Church</title>
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	<description>Sola Veritas, Sola Cogito, Sola Satura</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 01:46:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Morality Seduces People into Collectivist Tyranny &#124; spiritualtyranny.com</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-15988</link>
		<dc:creator>Morality Seduces People into Collectivist Tyranny &#124; spiritualtyranny.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2011 18:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-15988</guid>
		<description>[...] leading concepts: Incompetent Masses, Universal Guilt, Dictated Good, Abolition of Ambition, and Collective Conformity. But these five concepts are secured behind the walls of two [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] leading concepts: Incompetent Masses, Universal Guilt, Dictated Good, Abolition of Ambition, and Collective Conformity. But these five concepts are secured behind the walls of two [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Collective Fraud--Humility and Guilt &#124; spiritualtyranny.com</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-6211</link>
		<dc:creator>Collective Fraud--Humility and Guilt &#124; spiritualtyranny.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 07:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-6211</guid>
		<description>[...] Collective Conformity [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Collective Conformity [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Juli</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-5238</link>
		<dc:creator>Juli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 05:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-5238</guid>
		<description>oops, their site is actually cakewrecks.blogspot.com
 
and yeah, the link to the pic worked!....ok, enough silliness</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops, their site is actually cakewrecks.blogspot.com<br />
 <br />
and yeah, the link to the pic worked!&#8230;.ok, enough silliness</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Juli</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-5237</link>
		<dc:creator>Juli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 05:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-5237</guid>
		<description>every time I read or hear &quot;Resistance is Futile&quot; I think of this particular post...
so for giggles sometimes I visit cakewrecks.com  and this one cake made me think of this borgification post actually.... so I am sharing the link with you guys so you gets the giggles too..cause you can never laugh enough..
hopefully this link will work I don&#039;t normally do this:
&lt;a title=&quot;Resistance is Futile - Cake Wreck&quot; href=&quot;http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wGr8njEWjtI/SmOCZ92fY3I/AAAAAAAADqs/CdVhWhQqpx4/s1600-h/Torren+S+(anon)+.+ow+.+spelling.JPG&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wGr8njEWjtI/SmOCZ92fY3I/AAAAAAAADqs/CdVhWhQqpx4/s1600-h/Torren+S+(anon)+.+ow+.+spelling.JPG&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>every time I read or hear &#8220;Resistance is Futile&#8221; I think of this particular post&#8230;<br />
so for giggles sometimes I visit cakewrecks.com  and this one cake made me think of this borgification post actually&#8230;. so I am sharing the link with you guys so you gets the giggles too..cause you can never laugh enough..<br />
hopefully this link will work I don&#8217;t normally do this:<br />
<a title="Resistance is Futile - Cake Wreck" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wGr8njEWjtI/SmOCZ92fY3I/AAAAAAAADqs/CdVhWhQqpx4/s1600-h/Torren+S+(anon)+.+ow+.+spelling.JPG">http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wGr8njEWjtI/SmOCZ92fY3I/AAAAAAAADqs/CdVhWhQqpx4/s1600-h/Torren+S+(anon)+.+ow+.+spelling.JPG</a></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Borgification Fuel: Authentic Identity &#124; spiritualtyranny.com</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-2476</link>
		<dc:creator>Borgification Fuel: Authentic Identity &#124; spiritualtyranny.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 04:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-2476</guid>
		<description>[...] fuel of collectivism is our desperate need for Authentic Identity.   Share and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] fuel of collectivism is our desperate need for Authentic Identity.   Share and [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1925</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-1925</guid>
		<description>John,

Please stop by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sgmsurvivors.com&quot;&gt;survivors&lt;/a&gt; and say something brilliant.

Find your Tums first-you&#039;ll need them...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>Please stop by <a href="http://www.sgmsurvivors.com">survivors</a> and say something brilliant.</p>
<p>Find your Tums first-you&#8217;ll need them&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1901</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 04:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-1901</guid>
		<description>Happy Festivus John...

Merry Christmas to all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy Festivus John&#8230;</p>
<p>Merry Christmas to all!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1754</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-1754</guid>
		<description>Cameron…

I wanted to respond because, well, my commentary isn’t just a misunderstanding. Collectivism is all through your life lesson post and it isn’t limited to those in need of drug rehab. I can appreciate you didn’t intend to advocate anti-individuality: that is why I can cut you—and others like you—some slack.  However, your .02 cents is illustrative of my original point.  Your advocacy is so implicit that you don’t notice its origin or the logical outcome of your life lesson.  

Being the wordy sort, I have mucho verbosity on this particular subject.  So, I have too much to say about what you wrote to address in this post.  Actually, I have lots to say about how collectivism gets introduced into the Church and intellectual and theological failures that advance collectivism. Of course, your brief post does not contain all of these… or even many of these events.  Your advocacy to collectivism is implicit… and that goes to my initial point:  average church folk embracing collectivism without knowing its source, and outcomes.  

Hence, the Borgification of the Church.

First, let me address your contention that your post was aimed at those looking for help with drug addiction.  While I do notice that you listed drug addiction in your list, the assertion—even on casual reading—seems like an oversimplification.  I’m not trying to play “Gotcha,” but I am trying to point out how the life lesson is presented. 

First, the title of your post: “Change is a COMMUNITY Project.”   You start the post with a rejection of national speakers and life coaches and their corresponding philosophical assertion that Change is from within.  There is an overt logic in the Church that says personal growth is a function of group participation. The logic advocates accountability—meaning group scrutiny—as the agent of change.   By your own commentary, individuals do not have the power to change within: the inconvenient truth is real change only takes place in quality, COLLECTIVE relationships. 

To summarize, I count no less than 3 separate types of “community” solutions for change in your post.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Individual Change 
Social Change 
Civic participation   &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Furthermore, I noticed that the fix for your personal and social ills always revolves around participation in a group. I will address in later posts why personal change has nothing to do with group participation, the true source of “Collective Wisdom,” Isolation vs Individuality, and the myth of Group Accountability.  (I have briefly addressed this myth in The Myth of Accountability and Team Leadership and will dissect this further in subsequent posts.)   

And lastly, your book recommendation, Bowling Alone, stands as one of the most glaring collectivist advocacy.  

I browsed Bowling Alone and did some brief research on Robert Putnam, the author.   He didn’t originate the ides of Social Capital, but his book does deliberately set out to advance and expand the concepts behind Social Capital. 

Putnam (among others) defines social capital like this:  

&lt;blockquote&gt;Whereas physical capital refers to physical objects and human capital refers to the properties of individuals, social capital refers to connections among individuals – social networks and the norms of reciprocity and trustworthiness that arise from them. In that sense social capital is closely related to what some have called “civic virtue.” The difference is that “social capital” calls attention to the fact that civic virtue is most powerful when embedded in a sense network of reciprocal social relations. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I am not going to respond to all of his work, but to say that this is really collectivism lite.  It remains curios to me that DEFENDERS of DEMOCRACY believe that by advocating the “society” or “greater good” or “civic mindedness” they are protecting the power of the individual.  For all of these vague entities to benefit requires the sacrifice of the individual.  

Putnam is an intelligent man so I am perplexed by what comes across as a profound misunderstanding of American governmental form and social organization. America is a Representative Republic (NOT a democracy) and the social organization of America is laissez-faire capitalism.  (Well, it was capitalist for the first one hundred years of its existence. And then for the last hundred years or so, it was a mixed economy until recently. In the last eight years, America has taken a profound turn towards National Socialism.  But I digress.)   

Putnam, beyond offering a whole bunch of non sequiturs, seems to be mostly interested in redefining Democracy to really mean anything and everything civic—anything and everything “common good”.  

His logic goes something like this: “Oh… look at all the pretty leaves on the trees.  Now notice the leaves come from branches. It must be branches that make leaves, therefore to have lots of pretty leaves we must all be branches.”   

Putnam’s cause and effect of “Social Capital” and the cause and effect of a vibrant American Life utterly misses the root causes of human interaction. Metaphorically speaking, he seems oblivious to the function of dirt and sunshine or seeds: the seeds of my metaphor being the function of capitalism, rugged individualism, that the governing philosophy that protected all men in their individual pursuit of Life, Liberty, and Happiness.

I contend that there is no such thing as “Social” capital.  Putnam’s presumption of social capital is really a tragic failure to identify cause and effect—which was the point of my leaves and branches, dirt and seeds metaphor.  All “social” capital is really individual value being bequeathed to the group whether they have earned it or not. 

Anyway, Cameron, as I said in the beginning, if you are not intentionally advocating collectivism, then that makes my original point that much more potent.  My original point: the average churchgoer advocating elements of Collectivism with little or no critical review of its content, outcomes, or history. 

For those of you who are interested in my take on what really drives successful social interactions?  I will whet your curious mind with these thoughts.  I am working through a theory on what drives successful interaction. And so far, I have identified these elements.  This list may or may not be complete but I’m inclined to think it is pretty close.  
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Individual Sovereignty
Elective Benevolence
Common Values (Objective)
Proportional Justice &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I am not going to expand on these in this post.  But I offer them as fodder for the overarching conversation. The elements of this list are biblical and eventually, I will explain where they come from.  For now remember, collectivism in its compulsion eliminates all of the above.   

Keep your ears open, dear reader, for those who exhort to join the Brotherhood of Man and the sacrifice to the “Greater Good.”  When you hear the collectivist crying Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, know that bloodshed is just around the corner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cameron…</p>
<p>I wanted to respond because, well, my commentary isn’t just a misunderstanding. Collectivism is all through your life lesson post and it isn’t limited to those in need of drug rehab. I can appreciate you didn’t intend to advocate anti-individuality: that is why I can cut you—and others like you—some slack.  However, your .02 cents is illustrative of my original point.  Your advocacy is so implicit that you don’t notice its origin or the logical outcome of your life lesson.  </p>
<p>Being the wordy sort, I have mucho verbosity on this particular subject.  So, I have too much to say about what you wrote to address in this post.  Actually, I have lots to say about how collectivism gets introduced into the Church and intellectual and theological failures that advance collectivism. Of course, your brief post does not contain all of these… or even many of these events.  Your advocacy to collectivism is implicit… and that goes to my initial point:  average church folk embracing collectivism without knowing its source, and outcomes.  </p>
<p>Hence, the Borgification of the Church.</p>
<p>First, let me address your contention that your post was aimed at those looking for help with drug addiction.  While I do notice that you listed drug addiction in your list, the assertion—even on casual reading—seems like an oversimplification.  I’m not trying to play “Gotcha,” but I am trying to point out how the life lesson is presented. </p>
<p>First, the title of your post: “Change is a COMMUNITY Project.”   You start the post with a rejection of national speakers and life coaches and their corresponding philosophical assertion that Change is from within.  There is an overt logic in the Church that says personal growth is a function of group participation. The logic advocates accountability—meaning group scrutiny—as the agent of change.   By your own commentary, individuals do not have the power to change within: the inconvenient truth is real change only takes place in quality, COLLECTIVE relationships. </p>
<p>To summarize, I count no less than 3 separate types of “community” solutions for change in your post.</p>
<blockquote><p>
Individual Change<br />
Social Change<br />
Civic participation   </p></blockquote>
<p>Furthermore, I noticed that the fix for your personal and social ills always revolves around participation in a group. I will address in later posts why personal change has nothing to do with group participation, the true source of “Collective Wisdom,” Isolation vs Individuality, and the myth of Group Accountability.  (I have briefly addressed this myth in The Myth of Accountability and Team Leadership and will dissect this further in subsequent posts.)   </p>
<p>And lastly, your book recommendation, Bowling Alone, stands as one of the most glaring collectivist advocacy.  </p>
<p>I browsed Bowling Alone and did some brief research on Robert Putnam, the author.   He didn’t originate the ides of Social Capital, but his book does deliberately set out to advance and expand the concepts behind Social Capital. </p>
<p>Putnam (among others) defines social capital like this:  </p>
<blockquote><p>Whereas physical capital refers to physical objects and human capital refers to the properties of individuals, social capital refers to connections among individuals – social networks and the norms of reciprocity and trustworthiness that arise from them. In that sense social capital is closely related to what some have called “civic virtue.” The difference is that “social capital” calls attention to the fact that civic virtue is most powerful when embedded in a sense network of reciprocal social relations. </p></blockquote>
<p>I am not going to respond to all of his work, but to say that this is really collectivism lite.  It remains curios to me that DEFENDERS of DEMOCRACY believe that by advocating the “society” or “greater good” or “civic mindedness” they are protecting the power of the individual.  For all of these vague entities to benefit requires the sacrifice of the individual.  </p>
<p>Putnam is an intelligent man so I am perplexed by what comes across as a profound misunderstanding of American governmental form and social organization. America is a Representative Republic (NOT a democracy) and the social organization of America is laissez-faire capitalism.  (Well, it was capitalist for the first one hundred years of its existence. And then for the last hundred years or so, it was a mixed economy until recently. In the last eight years, America has taken a profound turn towards National Socialism.  But I digress.)   </p>
<p>Putnam, beyond offering a whole bunch of non sequiturs, seems to be mostly interested in redefining Democracy to really mean anything and everything civic—anything and everything “common good”.  </p>
<p>His logic goes something like this: “Oh… look at all the pretty leaves on the trees.  Now notice the leaves come from branches. It must be branches that make leaves, therefore to have lots of pretty leaves we must all be branches.”   </p>
<p>Putnam’s cause and effect of “Social Capital” and the cause and effect of a vibrant American Life utterly misses the root causes of human interaction. Metaphorically speaking, he seems oblivious to the function of dirt and sunshine or seeds: the seeds of my metaphor being the function of capitalism, rugged individualism, that the governing philosophy that protected all men in their individual pursuit of Life, Liberty, and Happiness.</p>
<p>I contend that there is no such thing as “Social” capital.  Putnam’s presumption of social capital is really a tragic failure to identify cause and effect—which was the point of my leaves and branches, dirt and seeds metaphor.  All “social” capital is really individual value being bequeathed to the group whether they have earned it or not. </p>
<p>Anyway, Cameron, as I said in the beginning, if you are not intentionally advocating collectivism, then that makes my original point that much more potent.  My original point: the average churchgoer advocating elements of Collectivism with little or no critical review of its content, outcomes, or history. </p>
<p>For those of you who are interested in my take on what really drives successful social interactions?  I will whet your curious mind with these thoughts.  I am working through a theory on what drives successful interaction. And so far, I have identified these elements.  This list may or may not be complete but I’m inclined to think it is pretty close.  </p>
<blockquote><p>
Individual Sovereignty<br />
Elective Benevolence<br />
Common Values (Objective)<br />
Proportional Justice </p></blockquote>
<p>I am not going to expand on these in this post.  But I offer them as fodder for the overarching conversation. The elements of this list are biblical and eventually, I will explain where they come from.  For now remember, collectivism in its compulsion eliminates all of the above.   </p>
<p>Keep your ears open, dear reader, for those who exhort to join the Brotherhood of Man and the sacrifice to the “Greater Good.”  When you hear the collectivist crying Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, know that bloodshed is just around the corner.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Immel</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1685</link>
		<dc:creator>John Immel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-1685</guid>
		<description>Musicman!
 
Interesting.  I have lots of thoughts on the true reasons for Calvin and Luther’s syntheses.  Of course, when I first read their stuff, I was inclined, like most, to embrace their man-centric hatred as something implicitly righteous—that was tradition and orthodoxy after all.  For lots of reasons that can’t be addressed in this blog post, that sort of hatred—the almost vile repudiation of all things man and human cannot be righteousness, even if it is supposed to be a precursor to embracing the Grace of God.  (i.e. Luther’s “proper distinction between law and Gospel”)  So, Fromm’s quote sparks my interest further.  I will probably dig into his work to see how he synthesizes the source of that ability-hating, self-hating ideology.  
 
Though, contrary to Fromm, I am reluctant to think the sources are really psychological.  I have a theory that I am working to develop that all psychological problems are really philosophical failures: philosophy being the iterative process how we find, define, and act on values.  People who are in psychological conflict usually have two or more “values” that they are trying to simultaneously act on and find themselves in utter conflict because the values are mutually exclusive.  Man is not made to operate with such inconsistencies; hence, our almost pathological need to systematize the cause and effect, the meaning and intention of our lives.  
 
(I have lots more to say about this…)
 
Anyway, the conflict of pursuing those colliding values creates the symptoms of disharmony, anxiety, and all other psychosymptomatic stuff.
 
so... if you dust of another quote or three, that would be great.  More food for thought!    </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Musicman!<br />
 <br />
Interesting.  I have lots of thoughts on the true reasons for Calvin and Luther’s syntheses.  Of course, when I first read their stuff, I was inclined, like most, to embrace their man-centric hatred as something implicitly righteous—that was tradition and orthodoxy after all.  For lots of reasons that can’t be addressed in this blog post, that sort of hatred—the almost vile repudiation of all things man and human cannot be righteousness, even if it is supposed to be a precursor to embracing the Grace of God.  (i.e. Luther’s “proper distinction between law and Gospel”)  So, Fromm’s quote sparks my interest further.  I will probably dig into his work to see how he synthesizes the source of that ability-hating, self-hating ideology. <br />
 <br />
Though, contrary to Fromm, I am reluctant to think the sources are really psychological.  I have a theory that I am working to develop that all psychological problems are really philosophical failures: philosophy being the iterative process how we find, define, and act on values.  People who are in psychological conflict usually have two or more “values” that they are trying to simultaneously act on and find themselves in utter conflict because the values are mutually exclusive.  Man is not made to operate with such inconsistencies; hence, our almost pathological need to systematize the cause and effect, the meaning and intention of our lives. <br />
 <br />
(I have lots more to say about this…)<br />
 <br />
Anyway, the conflict of pursuing those colliding values creates the symptoms of disharmony, anxiety, and all other psychosymptomatic stuff.<br />
 <br />
so&#8230; if you dust of another quote or three, that would be great.  More food for thought!    </p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Immel</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1680</link>
		<dc:creator>John Immel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-1680</guid>
		<description>Hey Ellie,

the movie I&#039;m referring to is the subject of this wikipedia article.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_(film&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_(film&lt;/a&gt;)  if you watched the National Geographic version, you probably got a more historic rendering of spartan life.  but the movie was REALLY fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Ellie,</p>
<p>the movie I&#8217;m referring to is the subject of this wikipedia article.  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_(film">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_(film</a>)  if you watched the National Geographic version, you probably got a more historic rendering of spartan life.  but the movie was REALLY fun.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ellie</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1679</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-1679</guid>
		<description>Were you recently watching &quot;Last Stand of the 300&quot;, John? What you said about the Spartans sounds like what I saw the other day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were you recently watching &#8220;Last Stand of the 300&#8243;, John? What you said about the Spartans sounds like what I saw the other day.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: musicman</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1671</link>
		<dc:creator>musicman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 07:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-1671</guid>
		<description>Fromm-pg 97 of Escape From Freedom

&quot;We have seen how ardently Luther and Calvin emphasized the wickedness of man and taught self-humiliation and self-abasement as the basis of all virtue.  What they consciously had in mind was certainly nothing but an extreme degree of humility.  But to anybody familiar with the psychological mechanisms of self-accusation and self-humiliation there can be no doubt that this kind of &quot;humility&quot; is rooted in a violent hatred which, for some reason or other, is blocked from being directed toward the the world outside and operates against one&#039;s self.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fromm-pg 97 of Escape From Freedom</p>
<p>&#8220;We have seen how ardently Luther and Calvin emphasized the wickedness of man and taught self-humiliation and self-abasement as the basis of all virtue.  What they consciously had in mind was certainly nothing but an extreme degree of humility.  But to anybody familiar with the psychological mechanisms of self-accusation and self-humiliation there can be no doubt that this kind of &#8220;humility&#8221; is rooted in a violent hatred which, for some reason or other, is blocked from being directed toward the the world outside and operates against one&#8217;s self.&#8221;</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: musicman</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1670</link>
		<dc:creator>musicman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 07:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-1670</guid>
		<description>Well I find much that is challenging and fascinating-Fromm first published this work in 1941 at the height of Facism and National Socialism.  Not a highpoint in modern society, as far as tyranny is concerned.  His chapter on The Reformation is stunning-I&#039;m still not sure I can grasp most of what he observes, and I don&#039;t always agree-but his ability to articulate why and how we turn to systems of thought that degrade us is well worth the read.  I first picked it up because of a passing reference to it in one of Eugene Peterson&#039;s books.  Your discussion on collectivism and the Dark ages of Westeren culture reminded me of his work-I&#039;d be curious on your thoughts if you ever get around to him.  I&#039;ll try and post some quotes as I dust it off....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I find much that is challenging and fascinating-Fromm first published this work in 1941 at the height of Facism and National Socialism.  Not a highpoint in modern society, as far as tyranny is concerned.  His chapter on The Reformation is stunning-I&#8217;m still not sure I can grasp most of what he observes, and I don&#8217;t always agree-but his ability to articulate why and how we turn to systems of thought that degrade us is well worth the read.  I first picked it up because of a passing reference to it in one of Eugene Peterson&#8217;s books.  Your discussion on collectivism and the Dark ages of Westeren culture reminded me of his work-I&#8217;d be curious on your thoughts if you ever get around to him.  I&#8217;ll try and post some quotes as I dust it off&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: John Immel</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1666</link>
		<dc:creator>John Immel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-1666</guid>
		<description>Cameron,
 
Hail and well met  …. People whose ideas are the subject of my commentary are welcome to weigh in or their own behalf or add their .02 or 1.02.  It&#039;s all good.  
 
However, I do have further thoughts. I’ve read your post quite a few times and … well, I’ll weigh in again… in detail in a bit.
 
Peace!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cameron,<br />
 <br />
Hail and well met  …. People whose ideas are the subject of my commentary are welcome to weigh in or their own behalf or add their .02 or 1.02.  It&#8217;s all good. <br />
 <br />
However, I do have further thoughts. I’ve read your post quite a few times and … well, I’ll weigh in again… in detail in a bit.<br />
 <br />
Peace!</p>
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		<title>By: John Immel</title>
		<link>http://spiritualtyranny.com/borgification-of-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1665</link>
		<dc:creator>John Immel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiritualtyranny.com/?p=84#comment-1665</guid>
		<description>musicman,
Until you mentioned his name, I hadn&#039;t knowingly read any of his work.  The casual read I gave some of Fromm&#039;s work piques my interest.  
His methods of &quot;&lt;strong&gt;Escape from freedom&quot;
&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Authoritarianism&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; 
&lt;strong&gt;Destructiveness&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;Automaton conformity&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;/strong&gt;have obvious application to many human motive choices.  I wouldn&#039;t have put in it his words but I do think people &quot;escape freedom&quot; I think people ABANDON Freedom.  

Since I don&#039;t know the length and breadth of his rationale, I don&#039;t know what else I might agree or disagree with. 
 
Where does his psychoanalysis fit into your thinking?  I&#039;d enjoy hearing your thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>musicman,<br />
Until you mentioned his name, I hadn&#8217;t knowingly read any of his work.  The casual read I gave some of Fromm&#8217;s work piques my interest. <br />
His methods of &#8221;<strong>Escape from freedom&#8221;<br />
</strong><strong></strong><strong>Authoritarianism</strong><br />
<strong>Destructiveness</strong><strong><br />
</strong><strong>Automaton conformity</strong></p>
<p>have obvious application to many human motive choices.  I wouldn&#8217;t have put in it his words but I do think people &#8220;escape freedom&#8221; I think people ABANDON Freedom.  </p>
<p>Since I don&#8217;t know the length and breadth of his rationale, I don&#8217;t know what else I might agree or disagree with. <br />
 <br />
Where does his psychoanalysis fit into your thinking?  I&#8217;d enjoy hearing your thoughts?</p>
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